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davyth
My friend just recently got stopped and was issued a HORT/1 for having his front nearside tyre below the recommended tyre pressure. At the time he was completely unaware that it was "slighty" low on air, but all his tyre's where/are legal etc. The policeman told him he would receive 3 points and a £60 fine (Scotland). But when i looked at the HORT/I the section that say's "low/high tyre pressure" was left as i have typed. ie they hadn't indicated if the tyre was over or under inflated...nothing was ticked or deleted. unfortunately his computer is on the blink so i am posting this for him. It does seem harsh as just a week before i was driving on my alloy due to a fast puncture for a few mins completely unaware that my tyre was losing air fast and that i was possibly breaking the law. Any help or advice would be appreciated.
jobo
did they check the pressure

what bit of statute, offence have they quoted
southpaw82
A HORT1 is a form used when someone has been required to produce documents for inspection. It does not result in a fine or points. Only a fixed penalty notice or a court appearance can do that.
davyth
None. they just said the tyre pressure was too low and it was an offence. then they issued an Horti requesting his documents etc. i told him to check this site before he does anything. also its the first time i have heard of anyone being told that they will get 3 points and a 60 pound fine for the tyre pressure being low. Also it was just after we had snow in Glasgow and i know that sometimes its better to release some air to avoid geting stuck etc. They checked all tyres and said that they where all legal (tread etc) just the front nearside was low on air.
southpaw82
An underinflated tyre is not fit for purpose, which is an offence carrying penalty points.
spanner345
A tyre varies pressure with temperature. The manufacturers recommended tyre pressures also vary with load/use.

How far off was the pressure?
quickboy
Of course a tyre that develops a slow puncture during a journey may not be noticed by the driver for some time. Think the police could have pointed out the low pressure and given the driver a chance to rectify it. Far too many FPNs/HORT1s being issued when words of advice would suffice.
southpaw82
The HORT1 is not a punishment - it is simply an aid to a document check.
davyth
I checked with him today and we are not sure how much the tyre pressure was off by. The police that stopped him didn't check it with any equipment , just their own amazing eyes. Also he does have two small printed tickets , one is the HORT/1 and the other ticket is the charge of driving with incorrect tyre pressure, this is the ticket that say's "over/under inflated tyre" although it isn't indicated which one. I advised him to check out this site when he can and to contact a lawyer (probably the one mentioned for the Glasgow area). I forgot to mention that they also refused to let him drive it home (approx 600yards away since he couldn't provide his documents there and then) , they declined to drive it to his home for him although they did allow his neighbour to do it after she appeared with her driving licience and insurance certificate. This was allowed without any air being put in the apparently incorrectly inflated tyre , so i can only assume that they considered it not dangerous for someone else to drive. strange eh.
Now i think the only air problem was the airhead that charged him. He can't take his wife or mother in law to the doctors or hospital appointments as he is concerned that he will stopped for some other reason. He is a 42 year old man driving an astra diesel , driving for the last 20 years approx and his only other charge was 3 points for speeding in 2002.
hotdog3147
QUOTE (davyth @ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 - 20:54) *
He can't take his wife or mother in law to the doctors or hospital appointments as he is concerned that he will stopped for some other reason.


You are joking aren't you?
quickboy
QUOTE (davyth @ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 - 20:54) *
I checked with him today and we are not sure how much the tyre pressure was off by. The police that stopped him didn't check it with any equipment , just their own amazing eyes. Also he does have two small printed tickets , one is the HORT/1 and the other ticket is the charge of driving with incorrect tyre pressure, this is the ticket that say's "over/under inflated tyre" although it isn't indicated which one. I advised him to check out this site when he can and to contact a lawyer


Think this one is worth challenging. There is a distinct difference between an under and over inflated tyre. Clearly an under inflated tyre will look soft wheras an over inflated one may appear to be bulging with the excess pressure. Perhaps Spanner345 will comment further (MOT Tester). The police IMO should have specified which one it was. Unless the offence is officially classed as under/over inflated.
The Rookie
I can't see it standing up in court without some numbers, I hope to hell he checked the pressure before re-inflating it, so he can go to court and state the infaltion pressure!

Of course it 'could' have been so far deflated the rim was almost on the ground, and that is what he's noted in his notebook, but as it stands the BiB concerned appears a bit of a 'Rodney'.

Simon
southpaw82
QUOTE (quickboy @ Fri, 20 Feb 2009 - 01:13) *
The police IMO should have specified which one it was. Unless the offence is officially classed as under/over inflated.


Off the top of my head over/under inflated is not a specific offence but is caught by "tyre unsuitable for the use to which the vehicle is being put".
bluegolfboy
Unless there is a 'verified' pressure taken and noted by the Officer I would feel inclined to let it go through the channels to the procurator fiscals office. They SHOULD see sense and chuck out the case on the grounds that it is nonsense.

The issue is that the Police have formed their 'opinion' that the tyre was under inflated. I am not sure how they could substantiate their opinion if they never took a reading though... There is a 'recommended' tyre pressure but a more interesting point would be to discover what the MINIMUM safe pressure would be... Tyre's have changed a lot over the years and even a punctured and flat tyre 'could' still be safe to drive on although I wouldn't recommend it.........

This is definitely a case of BAD COP...
Bryan Armstrong
Sounds a bit like the sort of thing that can arise when you've irritated the nice officer in some way (attitude insufficiently grovelling?) and he decides to go looking for problems.

Reminds me of an encounter I had very early in my driving career. I'd been pulled over for making an illegal right turn. I listened patiently to the lecture, and the words of caution. Then he said "So it wouldn't do to be found doing anything else illegal, sir, or we might be forced to make a detailed inspection of your vehicle...sir". Being young and foolish, I said: "Yes. not that there's anything wrong with it, of course!" As I was saying it, I realised it was a mistake! He stared at me for a moment or two, and then said, very slowly, "Oh you'd be surprised how many things can be wrong with a motor vehicle, sir. You might have forgotten to put any water in your screen washer...sir. Mind how you go." This was about 30 years ago, but the lesson learned has stuck with me.
spanner345
QUOTE (quickboy @ Fri, 20 Feb 2009 - 01:13) *
QUOTE (davyth @ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 - 20:54) *
I checked with him today and we are not sure how much the tyre pressure was off by. The police that stopped him didn't check it with any equipment , just their own amazing eyes. Also he does have two small printed tickets , one is the HORT/1 and the other ticket is the charge of driving with incorrect tyre pressure, this is the ticket that say's "over/under inflated tyre" although it isn't indicated which one. I advised him to check out this site when he can and to contact a lawyer


Think this one is worth challenging. There is a distinct difference between an under and over inflated tyre. Clearly an under inflated tyre will look soft wheras an over inflated one may appear to be bulging with the excess pressure. Perhaps Spanner345 will comment further (MOT Tester). The police IMO should have specified which one it was. Unless the offence is officially classed as under/over inflated.

Another time where mot and the law may diverge. Tyre pressure on mot is not testable, also not a reason for failure,

Only if obviously way low, "refusal to complete the test" may occur. This only happens if the tyre could endanger the tester or the vehicle when brake testing etc. Sometimes a road test is required but this is a rarity.

A tyre severely over inflated will not bulge, more likely an explosion will occur
first, under inflation, if extreme, will be noticeable, a slight under inflation not obvious.

In my view a policemans opinion, without using a calibrated pressure gauge, is worthless.
sal_park
As spanner has pointed out, if the tyre looks deflated then it is seriously low on pressure (say 10 psi) , not 'a little bit low' (say 22psi).

For reference if a tyre is low on pressure then the sidewall of the tyre will flex more when the car is driven. This will generate heat, which will could cause the tyre to explode. This is what happened to me on the outside lane of the M1 doing around the legal limit:





hotdog3147
There's alot of defects on vehicle's that aren't tested as part of an MOT, window tints being the main one. Suprises me how many cars have these, during daylight not a problem but once the light disappers it must be like wearing sunglasses in the dark!!. Sorry going off topic slightly.
bluegolfboy
sal_park... Something VERY similar happened to me... Oh, the days... wink.gif
fatboytim
My jag has tyre pressures in the handbook
26 PSI for comfort upto 100 mph
33 PSI for more dynamic driving at all speeds

thats more than a 20% difference,
I'd suspect the car and tyre manufacturer allow a safety margin either side of these high and low figures.

fbt
The Rookie
The accuracy of most guages at airlines is about +/-3psi for starters, so that becomes 23-36!

Simon
spanner345
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 21 Feb 2009 - 10:03) *
The accuracy of most guages at airlines is about +/-3psi for starters, so that becomes 23-36!

Simon

Then the accuracy of even a police issue calibrated gauge, then the fact that when taking a pressure reading, they alter the pressure due to some air escape.
beemerdevil
hmmmmm new one on me - sounds a bit iffy - Ive been driving for 30 years and have never heard of this offence - i would certainly question it fella or at least get a legal view
captain swoop
Canthe OP say if the tyre looked flat?
southpaw82
QUOTE (beemerdevil @ Sat, 21 Feb 2009 - 10:57) *
hmmmmm new one on me - sounds a bit iffy - Ive been driving for 30 years and have never heard of this offence - i would certainly question it fella or at least get a legal view


Which is exactly what he has been getting from here.
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