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ukdeveloper
Woke up this morning to find car clamped...

Rang bailiffs and they say there is £2,700 of outstanding tickets (inc charges etc) Cars only worth about £1000

i DID swear stat decs against all of these PCNs, but i have been away for 3 weeks only got back Sun and my other half failed to mention that TEC had sent back all of the stat decs because the PCN on each of them was illegible dur to dodgy fax machine.

so the bailiffs are coming to take the car away at 10.30 today. Nowm im inclined to let them unless there is any other way... however the bailiff on the phone stated to me that should the car not get enough money or the loan company (i have a loan secured against the car) sieze the car from them, they will return with the police and a locksmith and gain entry to remove goods.

At no time has a bailiff entered my premises to inventory goods here, and obviously this is my gf house and all goods belong to her.

so my questions are

a: is there anything i can do other than pay the £1750 (half of outstanding) to get them to remove the clamp?
b: can they really gain entry to remove goods?

Also, I am probably gonna be out when they are due to take the car away, so will they gain entry to my house whilst nobody is here?

Thanks for advice

Carl.
Glacier2
Do not let them in the house.

They cannot come with a locksmith and gain entry unless someone let them in previously and allowed them to levy distress.

As there is a loan on the car they cannot seize the car.
dave-o
Get the clamp off and drive it somewhere else. Don't let them in.
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 09:49) *
Do not let them in the house.

They cannot come with a locksmith and gain entry unless someone let them in previously and allowed them to levy distress.

As there is a loan on the car they cannot seize the car.


I spoke to them and they have told me that they will take the car away but not sell it, then using HPI checks they will contact the loan company themselves.

Dont know what else to do now... they will be here any time now.



QUOTE (dave-o @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 10:19) *
Get the clamp off and drive it somewhere else. Don't let them in.


I have no way to remove the clamp, and as they are council bailiffs acting under a warrant from a court would this be advisable?
dave-o
Use bolt cutters. Cut one link off the chain and you have caused negligible damage. You can offer to pay for this damage.

The only thing they can do is get the police involved. If they do (police probably won't be interested) then you can show the police the documents you have regarding your declaration. I'd think it's unlikely they'd arrest a reasonable man who has shown himself to be going through proper legal channels.

But don't even talk to the bailliffs.

In the absence of bolt cutters, you could take all the wheels off the car (except clamped one). It will be impossible to lift it on to a tow truck without illegal damage if you do this.
You could also sit in the car and refuse to move - towing with a person on board is against health and safety laws.
Neil B
Any chance you could phone TEC and get the stat decs faxed back in quick?

-

ukdeveloper
QUOTE (dave-o @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 10:36) *
Use bolt cutters. Cut one link off the chain and you have caused negligible damage. You can offer to pay for this damage.

The only thing they can do is get the police involved. If they do (police probably won't be interested) then you can show the police the documents you have regarding your declaration. I'd think it's unlikely they'd arrest a reasonable man who has shown himself to be going through proper legal channels.

But don't even talk to the bailliffs.

In the absence of bolt cutters, you could take all the wheels off the car (except clamped one). It will be impossible to lift it on to a tow truck without illegal damage if you do this.
You could also sit in the car and refuse to move - towing with a person on board is against health and safety laws.


I like your style, but unfortunatley i dont have bolt cutters and sitting in the car would prove fruitless as they would just come back when im not sitting in it.

they have got one of those big lifty up lorries that could just lift the vehicle onto their lorry so i dont think talking the wheels off would help too.
dave-o
And what is it that the tow lorry chains affix to? Your wheels! WIthout wheels they will be unable to lift, i believe.

Take them off AND sit in it, maybe.
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 10:41) *
Any chance you could phone TEC and get the stat decs faxed back in quick?

-

nope.. spoke with TEC who referred me back to council who say as the clamp is already on the car theres nothing they are prepared to do about it

C.
Glacier2
They cannot seize a car with finance on it. End of story. Call the finance company and tell them.
Alexis
First priority is to stop them taking the car. Take the wheels off - it should only take 20/30 mins.
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 11:19) *
They cannot seize a car with finance on it. End of story. Call the finance company and tell them.



just spoke with them... they told me they cant do anything until the bailiffs remove the vehicle and impound it. Then they negotiate to get the car back (albeit cheaper than £2,700 apparently).

if i get the clamp off whats the worst they can do?

they threaten police action, but what if i go out and someone comes and cuts the clamp off? then i get home and think the nice bailiff has just removed the clamp so i drive it away?

C
dave-o
Worst case is criminal damage.

But like i say we are talking one chain link. Police are unlikely to be interested.

Get it off, move the car, don't answer the door unless it;s the police. In the unlikely even the police do come, be polite and respectful and show then that you are trying to resolve it through the proper legal channels, but that the bailliffs would not listen.
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (dave-o @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 11:40) *
Worst case is criminal damage.

But like i say we are talking one chain link. Police are unlikely to be interested.

Get it off, move the car, don't answer the door unless it;s the police. In the unlikely even the police do come, be polite and respectful and show then that you are trying to resolve it through the proper legal channels, but that the bailliffs would not listen.


i cannot even see a chain on the clamp... it looks like it goes right over the wheel and then the padlock is housed inside a metal cage which bolt cutters whould have no access... but cannot see a chain anywhere.

C

and if the police did come wouldnt it be a case of

"he's got a warrant sir.... he can do what he likes" as they have no idea of the law of distress which is a civil law so they normally just side with the bailiffs from experience

C
dave-o
One of these:

?

You can sometimes remove them by letting the tyre down.

If not, you might have to remove the wheels. I hope you have some bricks handy.

Worst case, if they arrive while you're doing this you can jump in the car and lock the doors. Make sure you've got a newspaper and music so you can look like you are nice and comfy and prepared for a long wait.

With the police it's unlikely they'd come, but if they do then i'd just do as i said - be polite and calm and explain that it is all going through the legal process, but this has been delayed. You are sorry but you will not leave the car.

"He's got a warrant - he can do what he likes" - no, he can take your car. He cannot take your car with you in it. He cannot remove you physically from your car. The police would have to arrest you for that. If you are polite and honest i can't see them doing that.
ben webber
how can bailifs come and remove the car without a court order
(3 weeks seems too short to get it, from fines to court)
anyway, I think you need someone with you, call a friend a family member
etc...now you need some support.

Mate, I guess that now that I'm writing this you may be dealing with them.
But when you see this try to read at this site, it may help.

http://www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk




Can a Bailiff take my car?

Yes they can…and in particular, it is the easiest item to remove as in most cases, the car is either parked on your driveway or within a few metres of your home. In fact one bailiff company’s website states that: “We regard the presence of a vehicle that can be seized….. as a bonus!!

Until recently, it was very rare for a bailiff to clamp a car when he was enforcing a Liability Order for outstanding Council Tax. Sadly we are hearing of more and more bailiffs's clamping a vehicle in order to force you to pay the outstanding amount immediately.

Also, from an emotional point of view, the threat of having the family car taken is normally enough to force most people to go to extreme lengths to find the money to pay the debt, normally by borrowing money or using funds that are vital for utility and food bills etc.

If there is a danger that a bailiff could seize your car, our advice would be to write immediately to both the bailiff company to inform them if any of the following is applicable to you:

• The car does not belong to you.
• You are self employed and the car is necessary for "your use only" in the course of your employment or business)
• The car is subject to a Finance Agreement.
• The car is subject to a Hire Purchase Agreement.

**NOTE**

With the credit crunch causing severe financial difficulties to families, it is worth noting that before a bailiff has levied on goods, you may sell, transfer, hide or even give away any item. This includes a vehicle.

You will see that we have provided a letter that can be adapted to suit your own particular circumstances in the Letters Section of the Download area of our site.

If the bailiff believes that that you own the car…he can take it. There is Case Law that shows that the onus of proof is on you, not the bailiff to prove ownership of the vehicle, and that it is “not reasonable to expect the bailiff to make enquiries as to ownership”.

Please refer to the Legal Cases section of our Downloads area for a copy of this particular legal case.

What happens if you do not own the vehicle.

The bailiff can only take a vehicle that is owned by you. If the car is not yours….our advice would be to write to the bailiff company immediately, and remember…. it is up to you to provide proof…. not the bailiff. By visiting the Letters section in our Downloads area you can access a copy of a Template letter that can be adapted to suit your own circumstances.








My car is on finance.

A bailiff is not allowed to take a vehicle subject to hire purchase.. The vehicle is legally owned by the finance company until full payment is made.

Immediately you are aware that a bailiff could visit…..you must write to inform them that you do not own the vehicle. Our advice would be to send the letter by registered mail….an ensure that you keep a copy for your records.

We have provided a template letter that can be adapted to suit your own particular case in the Letters Section of our Downloads area.

My car is subject to hire purchase.

Hire purchase means what it says….you are merely hiring the vehicle…..until the final payment has been made, again you will need to provide proof.

However, we have had many cases recently where a bailiff has still taken a vehicle on HP knowing that he cannot sell it, but hoping that by removing it they can convince you to pay !!

Please note that if you have been served with a default notice under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, here have been occasions when the car has been taken by the bailiff. If you have not defaulted on your agreement, a bailiff cannot take your vehicle. Again, by visiting the Letters section of our Downloads area, you will see that we have provided a letter that can be adapted by you that should be sent to both the Bailiff Company and the local authority that instructed them.

I have a bank loan outstanding for my car.

In this particular case, your car can be taken by the bailiff. This is because you are considered to be the legal owner of the car, and your name will be on the log book.


ben webber
Or call them on this Number

0906 550 0145

On teh contact us page, this infor is posted...

---
**Note** Please see the bottom of this page for our Brand New service introduced on 1st October.


Under the section: About Us you will see that the main aim of our site is to provide sufficient information for you to establish whether there has been any wrongdoing or overcharging on your particular case.

By using our Template Letters and in particular, our Subject Access Request and copies of the Statutory Fees, you should then be able to take any complaint that you may have to the Bailiff Company, Local Authority, or County Court by way of a Form 4 Complaint.

From feedback that we receive, many people have immedate bailiff queries that they wish to discuss personally. For this reason, we have introdcued a Telephone support line.

As we are not publicly funded, we do have to make a charge for this additional service. The cost is £1 per minute. There are no hidden costs, but we would advise that you use a BT landline if possible as other providers such as Virgin and Talk Talk etc can cost much more than this. Please do try to avoid using a mobile telephone to call us as the charges are much more expensive.

Our telephone number is: 0906 550 0145 and is available between 8.30 and 7pm.

**New **New**New**

With many people having access only to a mobile phone, or even calling from an office where 0906 numbers are restricted, we have introduced a brand new service where, for a one off fee of £10 you may send a question to us which we will respond back to you via e-mail. This will ensure that you know exactly how much you are spending and will allow you to contact us from either your home or your office without the worry of a large telephone bill. As an added bonus, Included in this fee, you will be provided with a password to enable you to have free access to all of our Download documents!!

Click here for further details: ASK US A QUESTION.



For Media enquiries ONLY please email:

media@bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

ben webber
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/d_bailiffs.pdf


Read this from CAB, plain and explanatory.

Bailiffs
If you owe money, one of the ways your creditors might try to get their money back is by using bailiffs. The role of the bailiffs is to take your goods away and sell them to raise money to pay your creditors.
The rules about bailiffs are very complicated and what the bailiffs can do legally depends on what your debt is for. Bailiffs are commonly used if you have council tax arrears or if you have a court judgment against you. They can also be used for unpaid fines, child support arrears, rent arrears, income tax arrears and parking penalties (fines).
The bailiffs almost always need a court order to take your goods away. Check with an advice agency whether creditors can threaten you with the bailiffs without taking proper legal action.
If you've received notice that the bailiffs are going to come and take your goods away, you should get advice urgently. Do not ignore the notice. The bailiffs charge fees to come to your property and your debt will just get bigger if you ignore them.
Do I have to let the bailiffs in?
In many cases, you don't have to let the bailiffs in and they can't force their way into your property. However, they are allowed into your property without your permission if they can enter without breaking in. This is called 'gaining peaceful entry' and includes getting in through an unlocked door or open window.
Sometimes, bailiffs are allowed to break in to your property. For example, if you've got unpaid criminal fines, bailiffs working for the magistrates' court can, in some circumstances, use reasonable force to get into your home to seize goods. Also, in some circumstances, bailiffs can, with the court's permission, force their way into commercial property if there is no living accommodation attached.
However, it is unlikely that a bailiff would be allowed to break into your property in other circumstances. If this happens, you should get urgent legal advice.
www.adviceguide.org.uk
Copyright © 2002-2008 Citizens Advice. All rights reserved
Registered charity no: 279057 Company no: 1436945 England
2
Adviceguide Advice that makes a difference
Will they take everything away?
There are rules about what the bailiffs can take and these rules depend to some extent on what the debt was for. For example, for most debts, the bailiffs aren't allowed to take basic clothing, bedding, basic furniture and basic household goods. What is meant by 'basic' varies but it usually doesn't include things like microwaves and DVD players which can be taken away. Bailiffs might, in some circumstances, clamp your car or take it away.
Can they take things that don't belong to me?
Again the rules are very complicated. The basic rule is that bailiffs can only take away things that belong to the person who owes money. But they could take away goods that are jointly-owned by you and someone else. As a general rule, goods on premises where there are rent arrears can be taken away, whoever the goods belong to. But there are many exceptions to this.
What happens when the goods are taken away?
They will be sold at auction. The money raised will pay first of all for the bailiffs' fees and the rest will be given to your creditors. Remember that the second-hand value of goods can be very low and so, depending on your debts, you may still owe money even if the bailiffs have taken away most of your things.
Can I negotiate with the bailiffs?
This depends. Sometimes the bailiffs say that you must negotiate directly with the creditors. Sometimes it can be difficult to get hold of the bailiffs.
If the bailiffs do get in, you may have to sign a 'walking possession agreement'. This means that they make a list of the goods which they'll take away if you don't pay within the time set out in the agreement or if you miss an instalment. You usually have to pay a daily fee and you can't remove the goods from the premises. Signing a walking possession agreement might give you a breathing space to get the money together to pay the debt, but it does mean that the bailiffs could break in to take your goods away if you don't keep to the agreement.
Local authorities collecting council tax often have codes of practice instructing the bailiffs to accept very small repayments if you're on income support or Jobseeker's Allowance.
www.adviceguide.org.uk
Copyright © 2002-2008 Citizens Advice. All rights reserved
Registered charity no: 279057 Company no: 1436945 England
3
Adviceguide Advice that makes a difference
How can I complain about the bailiffs who come to my house?
There are rules and policies about how bailiffs should behave. For example, they should treat you fairly. They are not allowed to threaten you or pretend to have more legal powers than they really have. They must take special care when dealing with people who are considered vulnerable, for example if you're elderly, disabled, seriously ill or find it difficult to speak, understand or read English. Bailiffs shouldn't discriminate against you because of your age, race, sex, disability, sexuality, or religion. This would include using racist, sexist or homophobic language.
Depending on the sort of debt you owe, you might be able to complain:
• to the person you owe money to (the creditor)
• to the professional body the bailiff belongs to. There are several different professional bodies, depending on what sort of bailiff it is, so ask the bailiffs if they belong to a body and if so, which one
• to the court
• to the police, if the bailiffs are committing a criminal offence, for example, threatening or assaulting you.

If you have reasons to complain about the bailiffs, it's best to get expert help. Don't be ashamed to get help about bailiffs – it's a very common problem.
Further help
Citizens Advice Bureau
Citizens Advice Bureaux give free, confidential, impartial and independent advice to help you solve problems. A CAB will help you to negotiate with the bailiffs and also to make a complaint. To find your nearest CAB, including those that give advice by e-mail, click on nearest CAB, or look under C in your phone book.
Other fact sheets on Adviceguide which might help
• Help with debt fact sheet
• Dealing with people you owe money to
• Income tax arrears
• Bankruptcy
• Budget sheet
This fact sheet is produced by Citizens Advice, an operating name of The National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux. It is intended to provide general information only and should not be taken as a full statement of the law. The information applies to England and Wales only.
This fact sheet was last updated on 1 January 2008, and is reviewed on a monthly basis. If it is some time since you obtained this fact sheet, please contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau to check if it is still correct. Or visit our website - www.adviceguide.org.uk - where you can download an up-to-date copy.
Glacier2
QUOTE (dave-o @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 12:00) *
One of these:

?

You can sometimes remove them by letting the tyre down.

With that type of clamp, deflating the tyre works.

Simple puncture the tyre and pull off the clamp. Put on the spare wheel and off to the garage and have the punctured wheel repaired.

And Robert is your mothers brother. smile.gif
ukdeveloper
Ok Clamps off...

I didnt do it..... i was out at the time, but someone did....

ive gone home.... no clamp, and now ive driven the car off and hidden it.

The only thing is... and i think i may have shot myself in the foot, as the person who has taken the clamp off.... has not left it by the side of the road, and i have no idea where it is.

advice?
Glacier2
Deny everything.

Suggest even that the bailiff removed the clamp.

I trust the car is now well hidden and miles away.
dave-o
Maybe you could leave a note for the good samaritan, to leave the clamp just outside your gate for the bailliffs.

At the moment they have lost nothing and will probably give up if you refuse to answer the door to them, but with the clamp gone they might not give up so easily.
ben webber
where is this unfolding..town, city?
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (ben webber @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 13:47) *
where is this unfolding..town, city?


Hi,

Id rather not disclose too much about location, as i know the authorities read these threads. Suffice to say though that its london north area.

I am however shitting myself that the police will turn up and arrest me. Something i can really do without over the next couploe of days due to work etc...

C
ben webber
its ok mate, london is enough.

In one of the long sheets I posted it says somewhere, that as long as you are reasoable and polite the police will not arrest you. So no worries.

The car has finance on it - so it can;t be taken. Also if the car is used for work... does that help?

lol, at least you know you are not alone mate!

pepipoo is with you.

: )
slowerdriver
QUOTE (dave-o @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 13:43) *
you could leave a note for the good samaritan, to leave the clamp just outside your gate for the bailliffs.

A very good idea!

From the opposite "side":

As someone who has had occasion in the past and in the course of business to sue deceitful and/or negligent individuals and companies (including several FTSE250 ones, who jumped on receipt of a statutory winding-up notice), obtain judgements and then use bailiffs to recover what was owed, may I say that though in each case I was ultimately successful, it was a difficult process. You don't just send bailiffs in!

But then I stuck to the letter and spirit of the law, and used the court's own bailiffs. Sometimes there were alternative methods available, as there are many flavours of bailiff, and all manner of arcane complications are encountered (IANAL and I Never Used A Lawyer) and documents with absurd Latin names, e.g. WRIT OF FIERI FACIAS, WARRANT OF EXECUTION and many more I can't remember this minute.

In several of the cases I could have opted for private bailiffs -due to my own principles (or folly, in the eyes of some) refrained from so doing even though I would have got my money sooner and the wound to the other party would have been worse.

To the OP: What you are dealing with is people with a cause with a lot less justice than my one but who also have a lot less scruples than I have. Long-live the good old samaritan's bolt-cutters, and good luck! wink.gif
ukdeveloper
and i do appreciate all of your help.

but what im worried about is this:

ive gone out....
samaritan has removed the clamp
ive come home and driven off thinking that the bailiff has made some mistake and hes been really kind and came and taken his clamp back

the police will then surely say "well wheres the car now then" and if i say ive hidden it it will make me look guilty by proxy wont it? as the police will say, well if you thought the bailiff had removed the clamp why feel the need to hide the car.

Im just trying to cover all angles here.

Ive even thought as a last resort that the samaritan might return and "steal" the car

i am getting very worried that i might not have done the right thing now though. :-(
dave-o
You have done the right thing (although i would try and get a message to the good samaritan to return the clamp - less potential for trouble). If the car is on finance they can't take it, although you were obviously worried that they would take it anyway, and you have to go through the finance company, which would have taken too long.

At the end of the day, you have been rattled by the clamp thing, and put out by it - you were unable to get to work! So to avoid this happening again, you have moved the car in case they were to come back again.
slowerdriver
QUOTE (ukdeveloper @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 14:10) *
what im worried about is this:
....
the police will then surely say

Stop right there. It is London. In all likelihood, the BiB won't even be remotely interested!

Once, I personally served an order to attend court for questioning (re his assets) upon a particularly obnoxious and untruthful debtor - at his London business premises - on behalf of a friend of mine. He assaulted me in front of witnesses. I have many years of martial arts' expertise, but refrained from doing more than rendering myself safe from harm, and phoned BiB from within my locked car. The police attended but weren't interested, did nothing more than request me to get back in my car (unless "I really wanted to press charges", which I did not) while they gave him a "severe talking-to" (their words; I circled the area in my car out of curiosity and they were still finger-wagging at him a good ten minutes later).

In your case, all that has happened was a g.s. removed the clamp and removed your car or allowed your car to be removed to a safe place. That isn't even remotely as serious...

QUOTE
i might not have done the right thing now though.


Don't you mean the "good samaritan" and not "I"? I'm confused!

Well, this entity would presumably have contacted you in some way to let you know your car was now somewhere safe, otherwise you'd be calling him, her or it a "thief" and not a good samaritan, and you would have reported the theft of the car. My suggestion is that you think things through before posting, rather than after.
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (dave-o @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 14:15) *
You have done the right thing (although i would try and get a message to the good samaritan to return the clamp - less potential for trouble). If the car is on finance they can't take it, although you were obviously worried that they would take it anyway, and you have to go through the finance company, which would have taken too long.

At the end of the day, you have been rattled by the clamp thing, and put out by it - you were unable to get to work! So to avoid this happening again, you have moved the car in case they were to come back again.


ok, im not sure if i can contact the samaritan, but if it might be too late now as im not home and the bailiffs/removal people may have been and gone.

One thing that DID worry me is... when i spoke to the bailiff on the phone this morning trying to resolve this, i told him he has no right to force entry to my house (as he said if the car did not make enough at auction or was subject to a finance agreement, they would return with locksmiths to gain entry and remove goods), he told me that using a locksmith was NOT classed as forcing an entry but simply "gaining" entry and he was allowed to do so in accordance with the warrant of execution given to him by Northamptopn.

is this correct.

QUOTE (slowerdriver @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 14:21) *
QUOTE (ukdeveloper @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 14:10) *
what im worried about is this:
....
the police will then surely say

Stop right there. It is London. In all likelihood, the BiB won't even be remotely interested!

Once, I personally served an order to attend court for questioning (re his assets) upon a particularly obnoxious and untruthful debtor - at his London business premises - on behalf of a friend of mine. He assaulted me in front of witnesses. I have many years of martial arts' expertise, but refrained from doing more than rendering myself safe from harm, and phoned BiB from within my locked car. The police attended but weren't interested, did nothing more than request me to get back in my car (unless "I really wanted to press charges", which I did not) while they gave him a "severe talking-to" (their words; I circled the area in my car out of curiosity and they were still finger-wagging at him a good ten minutes later).

In your case, all that has happened was a g.s. removed the clamp and removed your car or allowed your car to be removed to a safe place. That isn't even remotely as serious...

QUOTE
i might not have done the right thing now though.


Don't you mean the "good samaritan" and not "I"? I'm confused!

Well, this entity would presumably have contacted you in some way to let you know your car was now somewhere safe, otherwise you'd be calling him, her or it a "thief" and not a good samaritan, and you would have reported the theft of the car. My suggestion is that you think things through before posting, rather than after.


Hi,

Thanks for the post, very interesting.

What i meant by "i may have not done the right thing" is driving my car off!!!

I have no idea who or what has happened to the clamp...

Honest guv'.
dave-o
I find it hard to believe that they are allowed to change your locks.

Phone Bailliffadviceonline, they will confirm what powers they have. In fact, i think it would be a good idea to relate everything that has happened to them, including your good samaritan's helping hand.
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (dave-o @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 14:34) *
I find it hard to believe that they are allowed to change your locks.

Phone Bailliffadviceonline, they will confirm what powers they have. In fact, i think it would be a good idea to relate everything that has happened to them, including your good samaritan's helping hand.



eh?

I should tell them that a samaritan has removed the clamp?
Glacier2
QUOTE
I find it hard to believe that they are allowed to change your locks.

They cannot change your locks or use a locksmith to gain entry.

They can only gain entry if someone was foolish enough to leave a door or window open or unlocked.

QUOTE (ukdeveloper @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 14:38) *
QUOTE (dave-o @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 14:34) *
I find it hard to believe that they are allowed to change your locks.

Phone Bailliffadviceonline, they will confirm what powers they have. In fact, i think it would be a good idea to relate everything that has happened to them, including your good samaritan's helping hand.



eh?

I should tell them that a samaritan has removed the clamp?

Tell them everything.
slowerdriver
QUOTE (ukdeveloper @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 14:28) *
Hi,
Thanks for the post, very interesting.

You are welcome.

QUOTE
What i meant by "i may have not done the right thing" is driving my car off!!!

It's your property. You were making it safe. You needed to use it to get to work, to earn the income that may eventually allow you to pay off your debt(s).
Unprotected by a clamp as it then had become, who knows what lowlife could have stolen it! And then you would have been left with a debt and fewer assets and reduced income to service said debt(s). You were being prudent and conscientious.

QUOTE
I have no idea who or what has happened to the clamp...

And so it must remain, unless the good samaritan does something.

QUOTE
they would return with locksmiths to gain entry and remove goods) ... is this correct.

At this juncture, if they did this they would be committing a criminal offence. End of.

QUOTE
Im just trying to cover all angles here

But I thought it was a bolt-cutter, and not an angle-grinder. smile.gif Please do not rise to this bait. In time, after your understandable rattled state subsides, hopefully you'll see the funnier side to this.
ukdeveloper
Thanks so much for all of your help..

The good samaritan will have disposed of the clamp in the thames by now. "I assume" ;-) So i will have to ride the wave of simply not knowing what has happened to it.

I cannot get through to bailiffadviceonline because their 0906 number is permanantly engaged. but I will keep on trying and will update here on what they say.

Im at ease with everything you say re the samaritan and clamp now and feel better for it.

Like i mentioned the only thing what worries me is the bailiff stated that his warrant gives him the right to gain entry. I told him i would be contacting NCC for a copy of the said warrant, but dont know if i should bother... what do you think? was he just waffling

dave-o
Seeing as he lied about changing your locks, probably......
JagDriver
oddly enough the names a give away (bailiffadviceonline) ...

Try :

http://www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/

ukdeveloper
QUOTE (JagDriver @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 15:31) *
oddly enough the names a give away (bailiffadviceonline) ...

Try :

http://www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/


Yep.. Thats where i got the number to call them. 0906 550 0145

still engaged tho LOL

C
JagDriver
Not been there myself, but can you not ask the question via email etc?
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (slowerdriver @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 14:06) *
QUOTE (dave-o @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 13:43) *
you could leave a note for the good samaritan, to leave the clamp just outside your gate for the bailliffs.

A very good idea!

From the opposite "side":

As someone who has had occasion in the past and in the course of business to sue deceitful and/or negligent individuals and companies (including several FTSE250 ones, who jumped on receipt of a statutory winding-up notice), obtain judgements and then use bailiffs to recover what was owed, may I say that though in each case I was ultimately successful, it was a difficult process. You don't just send bailiffs in!

But then I stuck to the letter and spirit of the law, and used the court's own bailiffs. Sometimes there were alternative methods available, as there are many flavours of bailiff, and all manner of arcane complications are encountered (IANAL and I Never Used A Lawyer) and documents with absurd Latin names, e.g. WRIT OF FIERI FACIAS, WARRANT OF EXECUTION and many more I can't remember this minute.

In several of the cases I could have opted for private bailiffs -due to my own principles (or folly, in the eyes of some) refrained from so doing even though I would have got my money sooner and the wound to the other party would have been worse.

To the OP: What you are dealing with is people with a cause with a lot less justice than my one but who also have a lot less scruples than I have. Long-live the good old samaritan's bolt-cutters, and good luck! wink.gif



sorry mate, thanks for the post, but i didnt understand hardly a word of it LOL

are you saying that the bailiff was not a court appointed bailiff because the thing he put through the door states he is certificated out of Northampton CC?

if thats not what you're saying could you explain in a little more "normal" laymans terms.

C

QUOTE (JagDriver @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 15:37) *
Not been there myself, but can you not ask the question via email etc?



yep, for a tenner. Which is no biggie, just thought that paying £1 per minute on the phone, you'd think they'd make sure as many phone lines as needed were available...

i will drop them an email if i dont get through in a while.

C
slowerdriver
QUOTE (ukdeveloper @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 15:42) *
are you saying that the bailiff was not a court appointed bailiff because the thing he put through the door states he is certificated out of Northampton CC?
if thats not what you're saying could you explain in a little more "normal" laymans terms

"He" is a certificated bailiff and NOT a court-employed one or a High Court one: read http://www.theabi.org.uk/press/p0601.htm

QUOTE
could you explain in a little more "normal" laymans terms

Here ya go: YOU ARE WORRYING TOO MUCH. smile.gif
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (slowerdriver @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 15:49) *
QUOTE (ukdeveloper @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 15:42) *
are you saying that the bailiff was not a court appointed bailiff because the thing he put through the door states he is certificated out of Northampton CC?
if thats not what you're saying could you explain in a little more "normal" laymans terms

"He" is a certificated bailiff and NOT a court-employed one or a High Court one: read http://www.theabi.org.uk/press/p0601.htm

QUOTE
could you explain in a little more "normal" laymans terms

Here ya go: YOU ARE WORRYING TOO MUCH. smile.gif



That's me.. a born worrier.

im thinking maybe a recording of me and the bailiffs next conversation with him stating hes allowed to come back with a locksmith and "gain" entry is required.

And then send that off the the Certificated Bailiffs Association, with a request that he be struck off.... all after telling him im gonna do it obviously... maybe let HIM sweat for a change.

C
JagDriver
Most mobile phones have a video / memo record function which will, at a minimum, record the sound.
ukdeveloper
QUOTE (JagDriver @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 15:58) *
Most mobile phones have a video / memo record function which will, at a minimum, record the sound.



yep. Im an AV consultant, so if i really wanted to i could have a full film crew there to video it. Lights / Cameras. even someone holding one of those big F***ing boom mics for good effect!!.. just for the crack!!! LOL

BTW... as i have been out all day, no doubt the bailiff would have returned to remove my car and seen it gone...

What would he do? can he report the car as stolen? im thinking no, but could he report the clamp as stolen and then my car be flagged for a criminal offence?

C
southpaw82
QUOTE (ukdeveloper @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 16:00) *
What would he do? can he report the car as stolen? im thinking no, but could he report the clamp as stolen and then my car be flagged for a criminal offence?


You worry too much. There's not a special squad of police officers waiting by the phones for some poor little bailiff to ring them up and go "wahhh wahhh" down the phone. They won't stake your house out and do a hard stop on you at gunpoint over a missing clamp. Relax!
slowerdriver
QUOTE (ukdeveloper @ Tue, 17 Feb 2009 - 16:00) *
could he report the clamp as stolen

He could do almost anything.

Don't you think this happens quite often? Where do most of the used clamps available on ebay.co.uk come from? wink.gif

QUOTE
and then my car be flagged for a criminal offence?

Only persons, be they human or corporations, may be guilty of a criminal offence. "Officer, I want to report this car for stealing my nice shiny new clamp" wouldn't get past the plod at the desk. smile.gif

If by "flagged" you mean, will your car's registration data be entered on the PNC or similar so that when it is spotted the driver is asked about said missing clamp, I'd offer serious odds it will not... The one time I had a creditcard stolen, the not-too-bright thief managed to use it to pay a modest phone bill before I got the card blocked. But plod could not be made interested enough by me to do more than record the event - let alone track down whose phone it was. I'm sure you'll see the parallel...

This topic might be of relevance to the aforementioned samaritan.
Neil B
As I see it the original problem of the debt still remains.

Not my area but I didn't understand that TEC response - no interest once the clamp is on?

I'm sure Herbie has stated on here, rightly or wrongly, that you can make an OOT SD even after payment?

-

axeman
seeing as how most bailiffs are bullshitting liars, try a bit of the same and say "no idea mate, prove otherwise" bye bye
Ocelot
County Court Bailiffs trying to recover money you owe to HMRC are allowed to break into your home, providing they have a magistrates' warrant.

Bailiffs recovering unpaid magistrates' court fines, however, do have the power to force entry.

Changing the locks would surely constitute forced entry.

As yours is only a parking fine, they cannot force entry, according to
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBen...ars/DG_10034289
bama
edit required Ocelot ?
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