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woodhill
Hi

First post here so apologies if it is a long one!

I took my wife and kids to M/cr City Centre on Christmas Eve, I dropped my wife off and drove around town with my kids for about 30 - 45 mins then picked her up.

I must have driven round one block about 15 times, and every time I drove past this one traffic warden glared at me as if he was waiting for me to stop, (it did look, I suppose like I was waiting for him to go before I parked) but my baby sleeps when the car is in motion and I had no intention of stopping.

Any way a month later I get a NTO through my door (dated 22/01/2009) saying that a PCN was served on that day...... The Tax disc number was wrong as was the expiry date on it (28/02/09 instead of 31/03/09) and for colour it just says "other"

The alleged offence was "PARKED OR LOADING/UNLOADING IN A RESTRICTED STREET WHERE WAITING AND LOADING/UNLOADING RESTRICTIONS ARE IN FORCE (code 02).

They now want £70.

Where do I go with this, from what I see....

1) No PCN Issued
2) I never stopped or left my vehicle
3) Tax disc data wrong.

I think the guy was just annoyed with me driving around but that is no crime?

any advice welcome and appreciated!
Neil B
Pretty much as you say. I was dubious about the thread title at first but indeed it does seem malicious.

Wrong tax disc details basically substantiates your story. Councils normally get those details from DVLA before issuing an NtO so this is a bit odd?

Show us the NtO.

-

Teufel
appeal on no contrvention and no pcn served

point out the tax disc error and make a claim of malfeasance
woodhill
Thanks Neil and Teufel for your speedy response.

Neil

Unfortunately I have no scanner with me now so am unable to scan.

Are there any particular details you need and I will type them.

It is a 2 sided 2 page NTO

On Page 3 there is a list of "Specified Grounds"

I think the ones that could apply to me are...

1) The Alleged contravention did not occur

or

2) There has been a procedural impropriety by the enforcement agency

3) Other grounds?

Then a blank space for writing your representations.

Does the tax disc error help me (perhaps toprove he never even got close enough to my car to read it)?

and Teufel how and what does a claim of malfeasance work.

Thanks again for your help and speedy response.
wanderingfool
it sounds criminal to me, is it fraud to issue a PCN to a car in motion that has made no illegal maneuvers?
Neil B
We really need to see the NtO when you are able.

I'm gonna speculate a bit. It may well be malicious, in which case that should be followed up.

The other possibility is that he was indeed taking an interest in you as you thought. Then when issuing a PCN to another vehicle entered your registration by mistake because it was on his mind or already on the HHC?

Either way, I can't see you losing this.

-

spanner345
Might it be a ticket for stopping to let your passengers alight?
Neil B
QUOTE (spanner345 @ Tue, 10 Feb 2009 - 14:10) *
Might it be a ticket for stopping to let your passengers alight?


well 'board' I think - but yes maybe - in which case exempt anyway. Still no excuse for wrong tax details - ya can't just make them up!


-

woodhill
Ok

I will be able to scan up the NTO tommorrow when i'm in work.

Just worried how long I have left to fight this before they start sending the heavies round?

It was dated 22/01/09.

Is there anything to gain from making a fuss about any malicous intent or should I just be concentrating on getting off?

thanks again for your help
2020Hindsight
You should reply ASAP saying you are disputing the ticket because the contravention did not occur. You can then invite them to submit the photographic evidence, which they obviously won't have if it didn't happen!

When they can't prove it and drop it, then you can move on to the malicious part with an extra bit of evidence under your belt
Glacier2
They used to do this in Westminster all the time. Perhaps they have moved up north and taken their bad habits with them.
slowerdriver
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Wed, 11 Feb 2009 - 00:10) *
They used to do this in Westminster all the time.

I can believe that. My first-ever parking ticket was issued by a pair of evil, lying hags (one old, the boss and culprit, the other young and nervous) in Westminster.

I was too busy working hard to pay taxes to haul those conniving liars into court; I did write to the police about it and got a "Complaint Noted and Filed. Investigated. They deny everything." response.
woodhill
Pics now added! Page 1




Neil B
At first skip through NtO seems compliant. Very good and comprehensive actually - well done Man City.

i think it's just appeal on the basis of 'No Contravention', being never there, and 'No PCN was served'.

Ball in their court to show that there was a contravention - which they can't.

Highlight that you believe this relates to another vehicle because the tax disc details are wrong. This surprises you since you understand such information is normally checked with DVLA? In the same respect, ask for a copy of the CEOs notes at the time.

(Nice timing - xmas eve! - wow was he in a mood or wot!)



woodhill
Ok

Thanks

I have now submitted the reprenstation online and will update on any progress.

Thanks for your help and advice.
Ticket ripper
One for the legal eagles or experts in english grammar!!

Quote from last paragraph page one of NtO

"Note: If you do not pay the penalty charge or make representations before the end of the 28 day period as specified above the council may increase the original penalty charge by 50% to £105.00 and take steps to enforce payment"

Could the above be taken to mean that the charge will be increased by 50% if you either do not pay or if you do make representations? I am sure ( I might be shot down n flames here laugh.gif ) that grammatically the "if you do not" in the actual quote would relate only to the "pay the penalty charge". It would be less ambiguous if they substituted "and do not" in place of the first "or" in the quote, as shown below

"Note: If you do not pay the penalty charge and do not make representations before the end of the 28 day period as specified above the council may increase the original penalty charge by 50% to £105.00 and take steps to enforce payment"

I hope the point I am trying to make is clear. It may be clutching at straws but legal documents can turn on such seemingly minor ambiguities.
Ticket ripper
Bump on this one?

I know the appeal has already gone in on this one, but I would be interested to hear anyone's opinion on this even if it is to say I have the wrong end of the stick biggrin.gif

watsits
would love to have known which CEO no. it was. I work in city centre and see theese people every day you never know I could "Bump" into him and ask him for you ;o)
woodhill
Hi

Submited an appeal online 11th Feb as above.

I have still not heard anything from the council besides for when I rang them on the 17th of Feb and they confirmed it has been put on hold pending review.

Should I forget about this now

Thanks for your help,
dave-o
Well there's nothing you need to do.

As long as they have confirmed your representation was recieved, then you sit back and wait for a reply. The clock is ticking for them.
woodhill
Just got this letter in the post (unusual as they did say any replies would be by email)

NOTICE OF ACCEPTANCE OF REPRESENTATIONS

Dear MR *********

Thank you for your letter.

I have considered all the details in your letter and can confirm that your representation has been accepted.

The parking ticket was issued, because you were parked on a double yellow line ( I was?) with double kerb markings where parking is not permitted at any time.

However, I can confirm that your parking ticket has now been cancelled as the images are insufficient to confirm the contravention.

Should you receive a similar ticket in the future, we may not be able to cancel it.

Yours...

Some Bloke.
Customer Services

........................................
...........................................



So thanks for all your advice and help. Chalk up another victory for the forum!

Should I leave this now or have a go at them?

Cheers
dave-o
Cop out! No surprises there!

Not keen on his patronising closing sentence either.
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