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davepoth
Take a look at my case (link below, page 4 and 6), there are several abuse of process arguments (which are skeleton defence arguments as well) in there.

The reference to Hatton is Hatton itself. Make sure to have plenty of copies with you.

The defence to either charge is more or less the same. All of that is set out in my case below as well. Read the Code for Crown Prosecutors, it states that the CPS must have "enough evidence to ensure a realistic prospect of conviction".

To have enough evidence for the speeding they have to have your identity, which would be supplied by the NIP. They don't have that because they decided to charge you for S172 for not sending the NIP back.

To have enough evidence for the S172 they have to not have received the NIP, but they must have had the information otherwise they couldn't have charged for the speeding.

As I pointed out above the CPS cannot answer this particular argument in your situation without appearing incompetent or malicious, so they may well fold. Please read my whole thread as it's explained in much more detail there.
gaz_whitty
My first hearing is tomorrow, can I:

1. Speak with the CPS before my hearing?
2. Bargin with the CPS to drop the S172 charge if I plead guilty to the speeding?
3. How can the CPS/Magistrates expect me to comply with the S172 if it was never received? Can I ask this at court?
4. I want to try and get most of this sorted out tomorrow without having to go to court again, could I do this? If so any tips?
andy_foster
QUOTE (gaz_whitty @ Sun, 15 Feb 2009 - 16:39) *
My first hearing is tomorrow


You entered pleas by post, and subsequently received a letter form the court requiring you to attend tomorrow, and that is the first hearing?

QUOTE
can I:

1. Speak with the CPS before my hearing?


Sometimes.

QUOTE
2. Bargin with the CPS to drop the S172 charge if I plead guilty to the speeding?


Usually

QUOTE
3. How can the CPS/Magistrates expect me to comply with the S172 if it was never received? Can I ask this at court?


Yes if you want to p*ss them off.
Proof of posting creates a rebuttable presumption of service. That is to say that if the prosecution can prove that the notice was posted in a correctly addressed pre-paid envelope, in law it is deemed to have been served when it would have been delivered in the ordinary course of post unless and until you prove otherwise (usually by giving credible evidence under oath).
Your defence is that the notice was not delivered.

QUOTE
4. I want to try and get most of this sorted out tomorrow without having to go to court again, could I do this? If so any tips?


If you successfully plea bargain, or one side folds completely, it will be resolved tomorrow.
Otherwise, there will be a trial, which will presumably not be tomorrow - although I remain deeply sceptical that tomorrow is the first hearing.
gaz_whitty
Yes, I pleaded not guilty to both charges resulting in the first hearing to be adjourned until tomorrow...
1. Why only sometimes? If I cannot bargin with CPS can I suggest it in court instead?
2. How will I need to go about and speak with the CPS at the local magistrates?
3. Ok, so instead of asking the court "How do you expect me to comply with the NIP & S172 if they have not been recieved" I need to tell the court under oath that no NIP & S172 has been received at my address, I can also present them with a witness statement stating that another adult is living with me and to the best of her knowledge no NIP & S172 has been recieved at this address, signed and dated?
4. So to try and avoid going to court again would be to plea bargin?
5. As far as I am aware, the CPS has no evidence of the driver nor no evidence of the NIP (Apart from me originally stating that I was guilty to speeding on the first set of forms I received, then changing my plea to not guilty based in part on the Hatton case) How would I go about defending my actions here?
6. Do I need to have a Skeleton argument ready to take with me tomorrow? As I really don't want to look stupid in court and they end up charging me with both...
7. The last letter I had stated that the Magistrates would be considering disqualification, should I drive to the court as it's very difficult to get there by bus? I had a look today....
gaz_whitty
Can anyone help me with answering the above before 10.00am this morning, as I have my hearing at 10.50am...Help Please....
gaz_whitty
Been to court today and here is the outcome:

Pleaded Guilty to speeding after having a chat with CPS about dropping the S172
S172 dropped, 3Points and £120 quid fine for the speeding offence, that was a lot better than what I could have been facing...
There was a bit of a scary moment when they asked if I was pleading not guilty to both because of the Hatton V Devon case and I said so long as the S172 has been dropped I would not proceed with this.

I would like to thank everyone on the forum for all of their help...
gaz_whitty
Just a quick question:

Do the court or CPS write to you to tell you of the outcome of your court appearance i.e 3pts £120 Fine S172 was dropped or do you just wait for your licence to come back and tell you?
andy_foster
Surely you were informed of the sentence when you were, err, sentenced. Both the fact that you were there, and that you know what the sentence was tend to support this proposition.
You may or may not also receive a copy of the collection order for the fine through the post.
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