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shug09
Just got a citation in to appear for speeding;
96 on the m8 motorway just outside the glasgow city centre area, although i was past the city centre and it was 5 lanes wide, it was still in the 50 restriction.

it was a traffic car that stopped me, never seen him behind me as it was 10:30pm on a dark november night.
they said my driving was not dangerous so the offence is speeding, clear night with traffic conditions light.
they averaged my speed using their speedometer which they say is allowed as it is calibrated and goes up in incriments of 2mph. Though iam not sure how accurate this would be for averaging speed?

do i need a lawyer for court?
i do admit speeding but don't want to plead by letter and get 6 points + heafty fine so would rather state my case.
what should i expect?

Thanks
Fedup
The absolute accuracy of their speedo would, in this case I would have thought, make little difference. In fact, if there was two BiB in the car they don't even need a calibrated speedo.

I would have thought a fine in the region of 125-175% of your relevent weekly income and a ban 7-56 days is a likely outcome. Getting a lawyer will make little difference except the overall financial outlay will be even more.

If you don't attend court you can't be banned. (unless they direct you to attend)

Start making alternative transport arrangements. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....
The Rookie
For that speed in that limit, you need to prepare for a ban, probably 28-56days.

Decent mitigation will help, but expect a fine of about 175% of your weekly salary (after tax and NI).

You don't need a lawyer for this, and his cost (at least £500) is unlikely to be offset by any benefit.

SImon
shug09
that sounds like it will be a sore one ohmy.gif
like most peeps a ban would be disasterous for me,

and 175% of take home pay, bloody rediculous that the system fine peeps different amounts for the same offence,
coz i stick in and get a good job i pay more than someone who can't be bothered with working and sponges off the government mad.gif



will it make a difference to the fine / points/ ban if i plead guilty by letter and don't go?

with the fine i agree that a lawyer will just add to my cost.

JPM1
You have nothing to gain by going to court.

Accept by post and take what coming ( you may get away with points and the standard fine ) If you appear infront of The Beak it will be worse.

In regards to their vehicle being calibrated, if they intend to rely on its speedo as evidence that it will have to be re-calibrated once they have done you. This involves a lengthy trip to the traffic garage. Dont take what they say as gospel 'they averaged my speed using their speedometer which they say is allowed as it is calibrated and goes up in incriments of 2mph'. Calibration is a very exact and time consuming check.
glasgow_bhoy
That 50 is a joke- theres soo many cases on here of people being done there. i got a lecture for doing 70 on it at 2am before (didnt get done though biggrin.gif)
shug09
gona speek to a lawyer tomorrow and get some sdvice.

my bidg descission will be should i just plead guilty by letter and take it on the chin, fingers crossed i don't geta ban.
Or go to court with or without a lawyer and still plead guilty of speeding but explain the circumstances.

QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Thu, 5 Feb 2009 - 18:09) *
That 50 is a joke- theres soo many cases on here of people being done there. i got a lecture for doing 70 on it at 2am before (didnt get done though biggrin.gif )



they must have crept up behind me at the kingston bridge as i was stuck at 40mph behind a van and a car with fog lights glaring. I thought i would wait until the extra lane opens up on the right before overtaking.
1st offence: Van undertook the slow car with fog lights
2nd offence: Car with foglights dazzling everyone
3rd offence:Car with fogs doing 40mph on the outside lane at 10:30pm holding everyone up

However the cops thought, coz i am in a subaru, i am a better collar so the wait!!

they never actually pulled me over until i was on the m80 at the gas tanks, so they must have been sitting well back. Thats another reason i was not happy about the speedo thing as they were well back from me.





The Rookie
QUOTE (JPM1 @ Thu, 5 Feb 2009 - 18:04) *
You have nothing to gain by going to court.

Accept by post and take what coming ( you may get away with points and the standard fine ) If you appear infront of The Beak it will be worse.


I agree with the tactic but expect the OP will have little choice and be 'required' to attend as they will consider a ban.

Simon

Personally I very carefull about my speeding, normally keep to just below the ACPO threshold for the road, if not I at least always keep in CoFP territory - 95 in a 50 is sticking your neck out well above the parapit!
Hotel Oscar 87
QUOTE (JPM1 @ Thu, 5 Feb 2009 - 18:04) *
You have nothing to gain by going to court.

Accept by post and take what coming ( you may get away with points and the standard fine ) If you appear infront of The Beak it will be worse.

I disagree. IME a personal, well prepared and presented appearance before the bench is more likely to win a "discount" than a simple letter. Personally delivered mitigation has immediacy and emotion that can never be incorporated into a letter - even a scratch and sniff laugh.gif and the bench can measure the sincerity far more accurately. It is a matter for the OP as to whether he feels up to the task which is often by no means as daunting as it might appear. Given his situation viz the likelihood of a ban, the OP may want to have a read through this section of the FAQ's before making his decision.

QUOTE (JPM1 @ Thu, 5 Feb 2009 - 18:04) *
In regards to their vehicle being calibrated, if they intend to rely on its speedo as evidence that it will have to be re-calibrated once they have done you. This involves a lengthy trip to the traffic garage. Dont take what they say as gospel 'they averaged my speed using their speedometer which they say is allowed as it is calibrated and goes up in incriments of 2mph'. Calibration is a very exact and time consuming check.

With respect - Absolute tosh! There is no requirement, nor even guidance, that a calibrated speedo be re-calibrated after a follow-check from which a prosecution might ensue. Calibrated speedos are fully calibrated periodically - it varies to some degree from force to force - but that is not what is done at the end of each tour in which follow checks have been conducted. The speedo has to be checked and this is most usually done by driving the patrol vehicle along a measured distance (a mile or half a mile) at a constant speed - surprise, surprise the speed is more often than not 60mph and is timed using a certified stopwatch (this in turn is checked and certified by an independant watchmaker). Alternatively it can be tested using another TA device such as a radar or laser gun. The job takes at most 5 minutes and does not entail a lengthy trip to the traffic garage.
shug09
spoke to two road traffic specialist lawyers and both say a ban is on the cards if i just plead guilty and give a sob story.

however to go for not guilty and get cops to prove 96mph, that will cost me £1700 - £1900 ohmy.gif , before a fine!

Don't know what to do, can't really get to work if i get a ban, can't afford 2k+

Decissions, decissions?
bluegolfboy
That bit of motorway is extremely badly sign-posted which is DEFINITELY something that can be used to your advantage...

I am assuming that you have been to Graham Walker and Michael Lyon???

Expensive... Eh... Especially since they don't really do any more than a normal lawyer...

What do you work as? Do you need a car for work? Have you been stopped for speeding or similar before?
shug09
yip, M. lyon 1700+ vat.
other was through traffic data base, waiting on graham walker phoning me back.

clean licience at the moment, only ever had the odd sp30.

is it worth going to the traffic specialist lawyer or should a normal lawyer know as much about traffic law.

i do not dispute the speeding but did'nt think i was over 90,
if the cops were judging my speed they would of had to sit an exact distance from me say no more than 100 yards. I accelarated sharply along the outside lane then eased off as i cut across the 3 lanes to get safely onto the M80 motorway junction. the M80 is notorious for cops so i eased down to 50.
They were well back as i never saw a car behind and they took about 1mile after the royal infirmary / onto the M80 to come speeding behind me and stop me, so they must have been a good distance behind
Mayhem007
QUOTE (shug09 @ Sun, 15 Feb 2009 - 16:19) *
yip, M. lyon 1700+ vat.
other was through traffic data base, waiting on graham walker phoning me back.

clean licience at the moment, only ever had the odd sp30.

is it worth going to the traffic specialist lawyer or should a normal lawyer know as much about traffic law.

i do not dispute the speeding but did'nt think i was over 90,
if the cops were judging my speed they would of had to sit an exact distance from me say no more than 100 yards. I accelarated sharply along the outside lane then eased off as i cut across the 3 lanes to get safely onto the M80 motorway junction. the M80 is notorious for cops so i eased down to 50.
They were well back as i never saw a car behind and they took about 1mile after the royal infirmary / onto the M80 to come speeding behind me and stop me, so they must have been a good distance behind


They have to be a minimum of 0.2 miles behind you and driving close to the speed you were.

They also have to measure your average speed between two markers...however if there was two coppers in the car then I stumped...don't know what the legal requirements are
bluegolfboy
They have to be a minimum of 0.2 miles behind you and driving close to the speed you were.

Should that not read 'maximum'???

I actually feel that there is a good chance that the Police have simply made up the speed from a rough guess and then made it sound convincing... wink.gif

The 'traffic' lawyers know the Police procedures down to a 'T' normally. Not all lawyers are traffic lawyers although claiming to be... sad.gif Some have simply gained there reputation through the defending of someone reasonably famous!

Your lucky that you were not done with dangerous driving....
Mayhem007
QUOTE (bluegolfboy @ Mon, 16 Feb 2009 - 00:11) *
They have to be a minimum of 0.2 miles behind you and driving close to the speed you were.

Should that not read 'maximum'???


Definitely minimum of 0.2 miles
desktop_demon
What? The pursuing vehicle cannot get closer than one fifth of a mile? What happens if it gets closer? Does that make the reading invalid or more accurate?
nemo
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Mon, 16 Feb 2009 - 11:26) *
QUOTE (bluegolfboy @ Mon, 16 Feb 2009 - 00:11) *
They have to be a minimum of 0.2 miles behind you and driving close to the speed you were.

Should that not read 'maximum'???


Definitely minimum of 0.2 miles

I think you'll find that 0.2 miles is the ACPO minimum recommended measurement distance, not the distance the police car must be from the target vehicle..
andy_foster
Follow for at least of 0.2 miles, or be at least 0.2 miles behind him while following?
nemo
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 16 Feb 2009 - 12:00) *
Follow for at least 0.2 miles, or be at least 0.2 miles behind him while following?

The former.
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