Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Red Light Camera - Ambulance Blues and Twos
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Ldizzle
Right , sure you have heard it before but found the search function not upto the job of pulling some uselful posts so here goes:


Was sitting stationary at a set of lights (front of the queue in a two lane carrigeway.

Ambulance came up about two cars behind, full siren and lights. I waited and obviously hesitated as e lights were red. You could see everyone edging forward etc and the ambulance drives wa clearly agitated.

Traffic that did have right of way had anticipated the coming action and had stopped in the road to allow us to move forwards.

Now foolishly i edged forwards and to the side, over the stop line to allow a path for the ambulance, the guy next to me i think did the same.

It is important to note that i edged forwards, so if the camera was working, im pretty sure the camera would show the two pics with hardly any movement as i only moved to the side to allow access.

On reading the internet it seems that allow access the the emergency services is not an acceptable defence.


What i need to know is if i recieve a NIP, should i go to court and plead guilty and ask for special circumstances?

I basically dont want any points, and feel very hard done by considering that traffic had clearly stopped, so there was no danger in me edging slightly forward, pretty sure the pictures would show all that?

Will the NIP be issued or will they rip it up when they see the evidence, and how can i get hold of the pictures to judge the strength of my case?

Also should i be contacting the emergency services etc to get an incident number for the ambulance etc?

Any help and advice would be great.

Kind Regards,

Luke
Pete D
Is there a camera at those lights and did it flash. Did it flash the ambulance as well. Pete D
Ldizzle
Pete,

I have no memory of it flashing, but after the incident i went back and saw the camera, a good way back from the lights, looked very new as well, so prob had film in.

Although i didnt see it flash it was day and i could have been looknig elsewhere.

I defienately went through on red as i made a calculated decision - which was to let a clearly distressed ambulance driver through as i genuinally felt it was a critical emergency situation (even if it wasn't).

I know in the eyes of the law i'm in the wrong...
jobo
how far back

they are only a few meters behind the stop line, if its a fair way it could be a speed camera

if they have a picture of you, and the ambulance, then a fare chance of guilty but with special reason not to endorse

if you dont here in 14 days, your in the clear
ict_guy
It would be a good idea to phone the local ambulance dispatch centre/hospital and try and get some info re the incident - certainly the registration number of the vehicle and the persons on shift at that time (if they can give that info out!). Best to do this earlier rather than later.

The law is quite clear here and it is only a constable in uniform or 'during a collison (don't know the exact wording)' that 'allows' you to go through on red.

However, armed with evidence of the situation/mitigating circumstances and your full assessment of the situation - ie. cross trafic stopping etc etc. I see no reason why you can't avoid points.
Ldizzle
Jobo , thanks for the reply

I know my stuff with the camera typres styles etc, it was definately a gatso type red light camera (smaller narrow version of the speed camera, and on observation i could see the sensor lines in the road.

I dont know if it would have caught the ambulance etc as it was a couple of cars back, anybody got an example picture of how much they catch when they go off?

surely the positioning of my cars in the two photos should prove i was not crossing the lights for personal gain etc...

cheers

luke
bama
personal gain ? nothing to do with it. not many cases like this end up with the special reasons being taken up by the mags. follow the advice above in case you were snapped and wait the 14 days is all you can do at the moment.
Martyn_Oldman
QUOTE (Ldizzle @ Mon, 19 Jan 2009 - 18:31) *
I defienately went through on red as i made a calculated decision - which was to let a clearly distressed ambulance driver through as i genuinally felt it was a critical emergency situation (even if it wasn't).

I know in the eyes of the law i'm in the wrong...


Unfortunately so, just crossing the line is enough (I believe it's got to be the front wheel but I may be wrong). once upon a time I'd have done exactly the same, now no way, I pray I'm never not put in the situation of slowing down an ambulance but in the end with the numbers of red light cameras it's just not worth it.

An officer at the scene would (I hope) have used their discretion but the camera can't and once it's gone to court it's then based on the evidence which I believe in the case of a red light camera is pretty solid.

Strictly speaking there is no excuse but if the pictures do show you edging to the side and out of the way then personally I'd go down the guilty but with special reasons not to endorse, IMO if the pictures are clear unless there is some technicality that can be taken advantage of you'd have little chance of getting a 'win' otherwise. 

I'd go suited and booted, be respectful and contrite, explain what you did and why you did it, explain that you were unaware that you couldn't move out of the way of the emergency services in such a way but that ignorance of the law is no excuse and you accept you've committed an offence. You have now learnt the error of your ways and you will ensure you do not cause an offence when moving out of the way in future. It wouldn't hurt to say something along the lines of "it's shaken my belief in my driving and I have embarked on an advanced driving course", obviously I wouldn't suggest you say that unless you have/are going on such a course!! Obviously if you have no points, especially for a number of years (better if never) then mention that.
southpaw82
QUOTE (Martyn_Oldman @ Mon, 19 Jan 2009 - 19:49) *
Unfortunately so, just crossing the line is enough (I believe it's got to be the front wheel but I may be wrong).


You are - it's any part of the vehicle (though for practical purposes a wheel must cross the sensor to set off the camera).
Martyn_Oldman
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 19 Jan 2009 - 23:06) *
QUOTE (Martyn_Oldman @ Mon, 19 Jan 2009 - 19:49) *
Unfortunately so, just crossing the line is enough (I believe it's got to be the front wheel but I may be wrong).


You are - it's any part of the vehicle (though for practical purposes a wheel must cross the sensor to set off the camera).


I think I've spent far too many years riding a bike, the front of the front wheel is the first bit of the bike! biggrin.gif 

Out of curiosity at what exact point does it become an offence? As the line has a width (quite a few inches in some cases) is it that any part of the vehicle has to cross in to the line or is it if any part crosses out of the line?



jobo
it become an offence in all practical sense when you go over the sensor strip, which is a varring distance in front of the line

in a theoretical sense when you put any part of the car over, on the line,
southpaw82
The TSRGD says

QUOTE
the red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the stop line


So, I'd say completely over the line.
Roverboy
I'm afraid it's a sad fact of todays roads that there is now no more "discretion" with faceless cameras everywhere, and it's simply a sad fact of todays motoring that you don't risk your licence by crossing a red light or such to let ambulances or police through, because no discretion will be shown now, it's simply you crossed on red, why is of no importance, your guilty, pay up.
hotdog3147
It will have flashed the ambulance too and the image should be saved of this. If the EFPN arrives reply to it and send a letter explaining the circumstances of why you went through and ask them to check the images taken immediately afterwards as they have to retain them and will show the ambulance. I am aware that a number of partnerships if seeing an ambulance activate a red light camera, will look at the last few activations and do not send out a prosecution. Not all mind.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.