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Marko123
Hi there,

I was recently caught on the M1 by an undercover Skoda which had apparently been following me for 3 junctions. When pulled over he cautioned me (anything you say may be etc etc) but I do not re-call having a verbal NIP. I was pulled on the 21st December and have not yet received a written NIP in the post...

When he pulled me they (the 2 officers) explained that they had followed me for 3 junction and that my speed had ranged between 95 mph and 115 mph. They didn't show me any video footage (not sure they had the equipment), but did have a pad of paper in front of them with markers and speeds written down. When in the car I was very apologetic and their mood seemed to change from Angry police to fair police by the end. They told me of lots of horrific speed killing stories, which I think I reacted well to (well I think everyone would do, they were all horrific!!!)

Now it's a company car and the lease company have not yet received anything either......

Final point is that it has definitely affected my driving! Since being caught I drive like a saint!!!

Questions:

1) As I did not receive an NIP and if I had I would not have understood the sentence do they have to send 1 in the post? If so as I have not yet received anything, have I somehow "got away with it?

2) How will they prove my speed? I didn't agree to it, but didn't disagree either?


Cheers

Chas820
They gave you a caution,i believe this would be the verbal nip,they have up to six months to lay the information at a court.They very often seem to wait five months before they do anything.You might be lucky if they were in a good mood and thought you were paying attention to their little speech they might do nothing,but i`m afraid you`re going to have to sweat it out.
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (Marko123 @ Fri, 9 Jan 2009 - 13:23) *
1) As I did not receive an NIP and if I had I would not have understood the sentence do they have to send 1 in the post? If so as I have not yet received anything, have I somehow "got away with it??

You had a verbal NIP, the next thing you recieve will almost certainly a summons.

QUOTE (Marko123 @ Fri, 9 Jan 2009 - 13:23) *
2) How will they prove my speed? I didn't agree to it, but didn't disagree either

Two officers and a speedo is enough to convict. They will say you were speeding, the magistrates will believe them.
Hotel Oscar 87
I disagree with Chas as to the chances of your "slipping the net" on this one. An unmarked car on the M1 is there for one reason and one reason only - to catch speeders and at the speeds alleged you are bang in capture country and sadly I think you'll get an invitation to the local magistrates court.

A verbal NIP is simply "You will be reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for ...." and is very easily missed amongst everything else that is said to you in what is an alien and stressful environment. It would be unusual for officers (especially traffic officers - as I suspect these were) not to use this form of words, IMHO, and even if they didn't they will say that they did. In front of the bench it will be 2 cops against 1 motorist. The maths in this equation is pretty easy.

One cop's opinion corroborated by a calibrated speedo (plus another cop) is more than enough to convict. I particularly note that the bracketed speeds are well spaced which is, frankly, what I'd expect to see as a result of a follow of the length they alleged to you and from that perspective their evidence, such as it would appear to be - genuine or otherwise - has a ring of truth about it. Prosecutions resulting from such roadside stops are notoriously difficult to defend simply because the bench are rarely persuaded that the police cock-up or are economical with the truth.

A summons may be some weeks away yet and given the alleged speeds you could well be looking at a ban. I therefore thoroughly recommend that you prepare yourself on such matters as:

1. "Newton" hearings (a hearing within a hearing, for the wont of a better expression, where you put forward a lesser speed than that alleged, but still over the limit, and this is accepted, or not, by the prosecution. Ultimately you are sentenced on the basis of the speed you admit (and accepted by the prosecution). This could be useful to you especially if you could effectively argue that your speed remained under 100mph - which is the usually accepted cut-off for short-term bans.
2. Mitigation and presenting your case to avoid a ban or secure a ban of only a limited period less than might be expected to be imposed.
3. Court procedures.

All of the above can be researched on this site - start in the FAQ section. This will stand you in good stead for the arrival of the summons and will probably enable you to make a rather more informed judgement about how you proceed without all of the other pressures not the least of which will be far less time to read up.
Marko123
Still not heard anything, is this normal??? It's now 2 and a bit months past the offence...........
andy_foster
If you were warned at the time, or if the coppers 'remember' warning you at the time, then there is no requirement for a written NIP.

NIPs from speed cameras go to the RK because they don't know who was driving, and those NIPs include a requirement under s. 172 RTA to name the driver.

If they are going to prosecute you, they have 6 months from the date of the alleged offence to lay an information with the court. It is not uncommon to hear nothing for over 5 months and then receive a summons (although it can take longer - the summons does not have to be served within the 6 months and often takes 3-4 weeks as they usually complie a bundle of evidence to serve with it).

It is possible to be 'let off' for doing those sorts of speeds, although far less common than it was when I used to drive for a living.
Every time I was let off (and that was lots of times), I was told that I was being let off on that occasion.

If you don't hear anything within 7 months of the incident, you're probably in the clear.

In the meantime, there's not much you can do, so little point worrying, although some form of advanced training might look good if you do end up in court (to show that you take the matter seriously and have taken steps to improve your driving - rather than to show that you're a wannabe rally driver who should be allowed to drive at those speeds...)
Marko123
Thanks for the advice!!! It is one of those difficult things to forget - I suppose that's why they leave it so long before they tell you...

There final comment was "they hoped I had learned from it"- I wonder if that was them letting me off???
The Rookie
Who knows, although the use of the past rather than future tense (if that is what they actually used) implies some form of closure, whereas if they expect you to learn it will be from the resulting court case perhaps?

Simon
Marko123
AAAAAAAaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggggh! Not received anything from the main topic, but was pulled once again on the M1 by a marked car (waiting on the side of the road) and although I had set my cruise control to 82 (I thought my speedo overeads by 5mph and at 77mph I would be ok) they stated that their fancy gun read a speed of 92 mph!!! They gave me a fixed penalty of 3 points and a £60 fine. They seemed to almost feel guilty about pulling me and kept on stating that "by no means do we think your driving was dangerous".... The speeding ticket says that I was in excess of 70 (not stating what speed I was doing) so as I was, there seems to be little point arguing with it.

I suppose this won't look good when / if I end up going to court for the first offence?! What will my likely punishment be now?

The sad thing is my driving really has improved since being pulled - I constanlty use the cruise control and stick, as above, within touching distance from the speed limit. This time I will be driving everywhere at 5 mph below the speed limits!!!! Sorry if you get stuck behind me!
Durzel
It really depends on what you end up being summonsed for. On the basis you didn't receive a NIP at the scene it's fairly safe to assume that if you did receive something now it would be a summons for a speed that exceeds 95mph, where you'd either be looking at 4-6 points (taking you to 9) or a ban.

Either way if you might want to consider improving on that "driving like a saint" habit. smile.gif
Marko123
I still haven't heard anything on the original offence... I am in no way getting excited that they may have been feeling Christmassy and let me off, but how long do I now have to wait? The offence was on the 21st December so the 6 months ran out on the 21st May.....
douglasb
Six months from December 21st is actually June 21st. That's the date by which they have to set the ball rolling if they're going to do anything, so you've got a few weeks to wait after that. It's really about the end of July before you'll know one way or the other.
crackpott
They probably thought that being caught by plod, in a Skoda, was punishment and shame enough for anyone ??
The Rookie
In that case I would say you're close to being 'safe' now, but another 2 weeks will just about confirm it, from memeory of teh past few threads from that area, summons typically arrive in 3-4 montsh and arn't run right up to the 6 month limit like the scammers like to do.

Simon
Marko123
Still heard nothing.... At what point can I assume that I am in the clear? Still not excited yet, but am thinking I must be getting close to opening bubbly?
cheekycharlie
Give the local magistrate a call to confirm that no information has been laid against you, that will put your mind at ease : )
Durzel
QUOTE (cheekycharlie @ Mon, 29 Jun 2009 - 10:29) *
Give the local magistrate a call to confirm that no information has been laid against you, that will put your mind at ease : )

I think I'd be more inclined to just wait rather than give them any incentive to get something in the post. smile.gif
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