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birdhead
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - December 2008
Date of the NIP: - 22 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 26 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A303 (E/BOUND) NEAR CHOLDERTON (SITE AAD8)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - DRIVER - COMPANY LEASE CAR
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Hi

I would be very grateful for any advice on the best way to avoid a totting up disqualification as I need to drive for work and to pick up and drop off my 2 year old son.

Over the past few years the changing role of my job has meant I drive much more frequently. I realise now I have become too casual in terms of observing speed limits and always feeling in a rush, I often drive 90mph+ in a 70. This latest event however has been a real wake up call for me and since I know I no longer have any chances left I have been rigidly adhering to the speed limits. This has already had a positive effect on me, i don't drive as aggressively and actually feel more relaxed during my journey! This might not wash with the courts though if it does go to court.

My previous offences:-

SP30, 27/06/06 - caught doing 28 in a 20. The area had been recently changed from a 30 to a 20 zone and I didn't realise the change

SP30 13/04/07 - doing 38 in a 30. Carelessness again on my part I thought it was a 40.

Here is a description of my latest offence.

Driving back from a friends house on a straight stretch of dual carriageway in a rush (as usual) to get home. My 2 year old was in the back and was screaming because the sun was in his eyes, unfortunately there was nothing I could do about this but it made me drive even faster than normal because I was desperate to get home. It was a clear sunny day.


The NIP was originally sent to the lease company who then sent it onto my company so it would have been sent within the statutory 14 days.

I thought I was doing around 90 (my satnav warns me if I hit 95mph) but according to the NIP I was doing 96.

The questions I would like to ask are:-
1. If I am summoned to court should I attend because there is a risk of disqualification or is it better to wait and see what happens? I've read on some of these forums that you get summoned to appear if they are considering disqualification
2. Is there any value of getting legal advice? My brother used a solicitor for advice when he was caught speeding and because the solicitor was familiar with the local authority he predicted precisely the fine my and disqualification my brother would get. Then again for £300 legal costs I wonder at the value of paying a solicitor when there are excellent sites like this one!
3. Is there any value in challenging their speed camara? The LTI 20-20? I've looked online at the calibration certificate and it only goes up to 80mph!? Also I don't think I was going as fast as they say because my satnav would have warned me at 95mph.
4. Would it be bad to mention having my satnav warn me at 95mph? As this basically admits I think that it is ok to do 94mph on a 70. (Which was true before this experience but isn't anymore since I really am honestly a reformed driver!)
5. Although my boss will not sack me if I get disqualified is it safe for me to get him to write a letter to say they will consider sacking me?
6. There is a clear photograph of me in the car but you can't see my son in the back, is it better not to mention this in view of the fact that according to the magistrates guidelines this increases my culpability?

Thanks in advance!


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:58:45 +0000
ict_guy
2 questions first -

1 - Who is the NIP now addressed to (since you say - "they passed it on to me")?

2 - What was the posted speed limit of the dual carriageway?
glasgow_bhoy
Assuming the limit was 70, you are right on the cusp of going to court. Just depends which constabilulalry caught you what they do.
birdhead
Hi

1. It is now addressed to me, our finance department received it on the 23rd Dec presumably the lease hire company received it some date prior to that
2. 70mph is what it says on the NIP

QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Mon, 5 Jan 2009 - 22:20) *
Assuming the limit was 70, you are right on the cusp of going to court. Just depends which constabilulalry caught you what they do.


Hi there, so there is a chance it won't go to court? I thought 96 meant it was an automatic summons? It's Wiltshire, according to their website they look pretty hardline
ict_guy
OK.

Your sat nav setting will not get you anywhere - could have been loss of signal etc.

But, since you think you were going slower, it would be worth writing to request copies of any photos - you can ask for these to help you in the identification of the driver - don't use the word evidence or proof etc and don't elaborate.

You will have 28 days from the date of your NIP to identify the driver. You'll most likely get the photos by return of post which may help us spot any flaws in the process.

birdhead
QUOTE (ict_guy @ Mon, 5 Jan 2009 - 22:26) *
OK.

Your sat nav setting will not get you anywhere - could have been loss of signal etc.

But, since you think you were going slower, it would be worth writing to request copies of any photos - you can ask for these to help you in the identification of the driver - don't use the word evidence or proof etc and don't elaborate.

You will have 28 days from the date of your NIP to identify the driver. You'll most likely get the photos by return of post which may help us spot any flaws in the process.


Wiltshire are obviously making lots of money out of this because you can view your photos online. I've logged in with the details and can see myself extremely clearly. I'm not sure how this speed camera works - speed over time or what - but it only has a 4 second interval between the photographs and at the base of each one it says 96mph. You can even view it's calibration certificate online, which is wear it says 80mph as the maximum they tested
ict_guy
The calibration to 80MPH is all that is required - You are being charged for excess speed (above 70). Under new law, even if this doesn't go to court, you could be offered a CoFP of 6 points and £60 fine. Your best bet could be to go to court and recieve a short ban instead of points.

It would be worth scrubbing identifying fetures of the stills and posting them on here. Other more experienced viewers may be able to spot flaws etc for a possible defence.
glasgow_bhoy
QUOTE (ict_guy @ Mon, 5 Jan 2009 - 22:47) *
Under new law, even if this doesn't go to court, you could be offered a CoFP of 6 points and £60 fine. Your best bet could be to go to court and recieve a short ban instead of points.


Under which new law and when did this come into force coz i sure as hell havent heard of it or seen it mentioned on here



Dude there is a tiny chance they could be lazy, not drag you through the court and offer a CoFP
jobo
erm not easy to predict allowing that you cant defend this

you have 2 ways of getting banned, under totting ,12 points or direct as the result of this one offence

totting ban usualy 6 months

dicresionary ban usually a month or two

the totting ban can be avoided two ways

1 by getting them to give you less than 6 points--- go guilty grovel explain the consequence , to you, to your child, to your employer, particularly if paying you not to drive could affect the employment security of others, as the possible points for this offence is 4- 6 you would have a very good chance of only getting 4,

a newton plea=== go guilty, but dispute the speed down to a level which would only incur 3 points


straight ban a month or two but no points

newton plea as above

praying that you dont get a 'bad' bench, plus consequences as above


or if it better for you ask them to ban you for a month or two instead of points, take the hit slow down but your still on 6points and two slower offences away from a totting ban, coz if you get 4 point, one more offence and your back here again facing 6 months ban


hopes that makes sense as im tired

they cant ban you if your not there soif they are considering a ban they will make you go, so you will know what to expect
birdhead
Hi All

Thanks very much for your advice. So basically I might as well return my NIP and hope that they give me a fixed penalty (which is a possibility albeit low). There is no point worrying about the disqualification or whether I should go to court yet because if they are considering disqualifying me then they would tell me I have to come to court anyway.

But am I right in thinking that if I get a letter saying I don't have to go to court (and therefore definitely won't be disqualified) I might as well send my mitigation in writing? Or would it be still better to appear in court? I've heard different theories on this, some say they prefer it in writing as it saves on their time but others say that you could get a lesser fine by making the effort to attend?

Thx once again.
birdhead
QUOTE (ict_guy @ Mon, 5 Jan 2009 - 22:47) *
The calibration to 80MPH is all that is required - You are being charged for excess speed (above 70). Under new law, even if this doesn't go to court, you could be offered a CoFP of 6 points and £60 fine. Your best bet could be to go to court and recieve a short ban instead of points.

It would be worth scrubbing identifying fetures of the stills and posting them on here. Other more experienced viewers may be able to spot flaws etc for a possible defence.


Sorry I can't see how to post pictures on here it doesn't give me the option?
Fredd
It's in the FAQs.
jobo
not quite

they send a summons out, you go they may or may not ban you

you dont go( plead by post)

they send another summons saying turn up or else, then you know whats coming

normally say go, it looks better,but in your case id stay away, if you have to go you get to put you hardship argument
birdhead
QUOTE (jobo @ Tue, 6 Jan 2009 - 20:56) *
not quite

they send a summons out, you go they may or may not ban you

you dont go( plead by post)

they send another summons saying turn up or else, then you know whats coming

normally say go, it looks better,but in your case id stay away, if you have to go you get to put you hardship argument


But would it not be better for me to go in the first instance to show willing and therefore reduce the likelihood of getting disqualification? Or does that decision get made before you even turn up?
birdhead
QUOTE (ict_guy @ Mon, 5 Jan 2009 - 22:47) *
The calibration to 80MPH is all that is required - You are being charged for excess speed (above 70). Under new law, even if this doesn't go to court, you could be offered a CoFP of 6 points and £60 fine. Your best bet could be to go to court and recieve a short ban instead of points.

It would be worth scrubbing identifying fetures of the stills and posting them on here. Other more experienced viewers may be able to spot flaws etc for a possible defence.


Hi there, here are the speeding images I just wondered if anyone could see any potential flaws in these at all?



And again with a correctly working link!


The thing i can see that doesn't seem right is that they have the speed on the first image but then the next one 4 seconds later has no speed or distance on it... sad.gif
Glacier2
As they say they only need the info on the first pic. The others are to clarify the VRM and the picture of the driver.
davecsm
QUOTE (birdhead @ Mon, 5 Jan 2009 - 21:58) *
5. Although my boss will not sack me if I get disqualified is it safe for me to get him to write a letter to say they will consider sacking me?


No
birdhead
QUOTE (davecsm @ Sun, 18 Jan 2009 - 17:56) *
QUOTE (birdhead @ Mon, 5 Jan 2009 - 21:58) *
5. Although my boss will not sack me if I get disqualified is it safe for me to get him to write a letter to say they will consider sacking me?


No


Actually that statement may be turn out to be true since they would have to reconsider my position if i were unable to drive....
jobo
thats ok then if true
The Rookie
Be careful what you say as your case is 100% IDable from the info you left on the scans!

Simon
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