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paddy0612
hello all, hope you all are good

now i would like to explain my circumstances, i am now 19, but at the date of the offence i was 18 and i have been driving less than 2years and i already have a sp30 on my liensce, which means if i get another 3 my liesnce is revoked.

roughly 1 and half months ago in the early hours on the A130 in ESSEX heading to chelmsford from southend.

i was driving along the a130 which is a dualcarriageway ... i encountered a plain volvo in front of me doing about 80 at this current point i was doing roughly the same speed and he moved over for me and as i went past doing slightly over 80 he promptly acclerated thus i acclerated to get in front of him and when i did do so i moved into the 1st lane and slowed down

he then put his lights on it turned out to be undercover police to my shock

i am profoundly deaf and use BSL and have problems understanding hearing people, and they have problems understanding me due to my poor speech

i got out of the car. and proceeded to stand to the left of the car, the officer opproached me saying ****************************************** which i dont know then he proceeded to hold my arm and tow me to his car and put me in the rear seat where i explained i was deaf and couldnt understand.

the officer then proceeded to ********* and signed (car kays) so i gave him my car keys and then the officer proceeded got out of the police car and into my car and drove my car and the police car with me still in it drove aswell

i thought we were going to the police station but we stopped at a area with street lighting

i was still in the police car, the police car driver demanded my liesnce and i duly obligied. then he claimed in sign language using hands to indicate i was doing 120mph to which i thought to myself pardon the language **bolloxs** because my car is only a 1.6 16v which would take a long time to reach 120mph so i doubt i was doing 120mph but i will admit i was exceeding 70mph i then said how do you know i was doing 120 the driver said my speedo said so pointing at it.

then the police officer in the passenger seat proceeded to take the piss out of me i think... then he put a breathlasyer in front of me to which i breathed into and came back with a zero.

then i asked for pen and paper asking what they were going to do

they said back, i am not sure but they said *************** and **reporting you for excess speed**

the officer on the right then found out from a phone i already had three points and he asked what it was for i signed over 30 and he proceeded to chuckle and he signed pointing at me

**you 3points + 60 fine = back to provisional letter 14days

other one laughed and said no *** court pointing at paper

*********** between them two and one said pointed at paper and said 2months

i wrote down on paper court? and they muttered back to me, to which at this point i was sick to my stomach of their attitude... they then wrote down a caution on a paper and said sign it or we take you to station to which i signed it and they said see u later

they didnt give me any paperwork or anything and their attitude stank and i had no real idea of what they were saying only glimpses... and i dont think they understood me aswell

i am wrecked and its been on my mind for a long time i waited the 14days, 28days and nothing has happened and countless sleepless nights

i need my liesnce for travelling to football training and matches on sunday which is my social time and social life due to my deafness i dont have many friends and the football team i play for are a all deaf football team (we meet up once a week roughly and come from all over, one person is from watford and the team is based in colchester just outside of it), i need it for my job also which is at royal mail i am not sure how many miles away it is, but if i lose my liesnce i will lose my job and thus cannot save for uni which i am intending to go in sept, so there will be no point in going to uni / working i will just be a bum and then i dont think i will have much anticipation for life to be honest because everything will have been lost.

i was hoping to do BUSINESS AND MANAGEMENT BA hons so thus i could get a good job within the council and upgrade from there to a MA degree... but i need my liesnce to be kept in order to do this.

(i will be using my savings for a solictor in court)

this event has lost me all faith in essex police, last week my car mirror was kicked off by a vandal and i didnt even report it to the police because i dont have any faith in them.

if anyone can shed any light on this for example

1) are they going to do anything and what are they going to do
2) what is going to happen in court?
3) is there any other option i read somewhere big fine and a ban but no points?

many thanks in advance for any good advice (sorry edited - will be consulting a solictor soon as possible aswell)
jobo
hold on there mate things arnt quite as bad as you whole life gone away i got 6 month ban when i was 18 its just bloody inconvenient not life shattering##


there is always a chance they just wanted to put the shit up you but you wont find out for up to 7 months, by which time youl have saved up for uni and lets face it you wont be the only; student with out a car

the consequences are really dependent on what they say you did. if they say 120 its almost certainly a ban of say 1-2 months a big fine but no points, but your insurance will be sky high

if they charge you with less speed say 90 something, then it will be 3-6 points but your licence revoked, this means youl have to resit our test, if you organise it you can be back on the road in in about 6-8 weeks


so one way or another your looking at not having a valid licence about this time next year


ps save your money on solicitors till the summons turns up
paddy0612
i think they may have been winding me up ... but up to 7months

is there any way i can find out earlier than 7months?

and the fact they in my opinon ''deaf discrimincation'' towards me via their attiude and lack of concern

is there any other way such as if it goes to court the magistrates could give me a ban for a period of time and a fine (i read somewhere in a thread on here i'l link it to this page)

link to thread LIO

and i do need my liensce... i am going to be sitting on my bum for a very long time before i get into uni, i am having to attend a access course if i lose it i will have to go to a different one and start over again and then finally get into uni which is a very long time... and i wont be able to go to football so i will be doing nothing alot of the time... which is very depressive and what are the odds if it goes to court?

tbh i wish it went to court then they threw the case out and slammed the officers for their attitudes and suspended the officers (its what should happen imo)
jobo
im not sure if a complaint against them will help much as it wont make b
the speeding go away

as ive just said a ban for 120 will not attract points , they have 6 months to lay the info with the court and then the courts can piss about for another couple of months, and then the court date should be a month or two later, so the chances are his wont happen before late summer, by which time youl be leaving your job and have finished your access course

of course it could come next week
paddy0612
this summer or next summer you mean?
jobo
which summer is about 6 months away, that's the one i mean say august 2009
paddy0612
ok cheers jobo

anyone else have any views? apart from points/ban is there any other alternative?

and how do i go about making a complaint against them. do i wait for the summons which will tell me their numbers or?
The Rookie
Any complaint will not be heard until the court case is over.

You can submit a complaint easily enough by writing to the local chief Constable, use the farces website for details.

There actions do not constitute a defence to speeding, you had the option not to speed up, but if it was a traffic car with Video, you could request disclosure of the video after entering a 'Newton Plea' (where you plead guilty to the offence but contest the facts of the case) the courts do not look well on Officers shown to be 'easy with the truth'.

Simon
paddy0612
if they do decide to ban me for doing 120mph

does it mean my liesnce will be back to provisional or still a full UK liensce but with a endorsment on it and it affects my insurance if i declare it?

liesnce held for ** is what i would like to know...

just doing insurance quotes...
chris-d
Surely your alleged speed will be on the video evidence they have? which will only show 80 ish?

Zed Victor One
I would suggest that they were under an obligation to treat you as a vulnerable person and as such should have had a person competent in BSL present to explain to you what it was you were being accused of and how they intended dealing with it.
I'm not sure what those more knowledgeable on here think notwithstanding the Rookie's comment of, " Any complaint will not be heard until the court case is over. ", I would suggest that if possible you arrange an appointment with the Inspector of the traffic area that covers where the offence occured. You will need to take along someone from your local deaf association (?) and make a formal complaint concerning the way in which you were treated.
Whilst the PACE act refers to vulnerable persons in police custody once they are aware that they were dealing with someone with who is profoundly deaf they cannot choose to disregard this and deal with you inappropriately.
My advice would be not to delay doing this, contrary to popular opinion on here I think you'll find that any senior officer worth his rank will take your complaint seriously.
davepoth
I should think you will have mileage here. Check out Article 5, Section 2 of the Human Rights Act.

QUOTE
Everyone who is arrested shall be informed promptly, in a language which he understands, of the reasons for his arrest and of any charge against him.


Arresting was defined in Spicer v Holt (1977) where Viscount Dilhorne said

QUOTE
Arrest' is an ordinary English word ... Whether or not a person has been arrested depends not on the legality of the arrest but on whether he has been deprived of his liberty to go where he pleases


Reference to which can be found in Lewis v South Wales Constabulary [1991] 1 All ER 206

So since you were placed in the back of a police car and your keys and car were taken from you, a good argument can be made that you were arrested, whether or not any rights were read. In that situation they should have done exactly what they do for anyone who cannot understand English, which is arrange for a translator. By not doing that I believe they are in breach of the Human Rights Act.

If you act fast, and act hard, you may well be able to shame them into dropping it right away.
bluegolfboy
My advice would be to avoid the 'complaint' until such times as the case is out of the way...

You do not want to go raising a complaint against the Officers if they have actually decided not to pursue you. Chances of this are slim but it is not worth shaking the nest until such times as necessary.

If it does go to court then your feelings could be put before the judge in mitigation or indeed Police procedure could be questioned throughout the trial. I ain't to up to speed with how you would go about this but some on here are...

Best of luck none the less. Pretty sickening the way you were treated.
jobo
Hi BGB

young lad , Red sporty car , 120 MPH

Not prosecute, are you having a laugh

if he leaves a complaint 6 months it looses al affect ,

but didn't he say they were signing him, would that count ?
paddy0612
i am waiting for the summons to arrive

then i will be most certainly making a complaint and telling the court what happened and dealing with this matter and taking whatever they decide to throw at me (cant do anything apart from put my side of the story forwards)

they werent signing to me, just muttered keys and indicated ingintion as if he was starting the car (obviously indicating he wants my car keys) i just handed them over without thinking...

- Surely your alleged speed will be on the video evidence they have? which will only show 80 ish? -

i did ask what proof they had, he just pointed to his speedo suggesting to me he does not have video evidence (i think, cant be accurate)

everything i have researched shows they breached my rights, wrong procdedure, but i will not being doing anything until a summons lands through my letter box.

and this thing has made me alot more knowledgeable and next time it happens (hopefully not but never know, different circumstances etc) i wont be a sitting duck anymore

paddy0612
today i was at the police station

spoke to a nice (pretty lady) lols

explained i would like to know if i was being prosetuced or not for ''speeding'' she said they didnt give me a ticket thus theyv let me off and put this in writing...

(all our communication was pen and paper unlike the cops that pulled me who didnt bother)

im going to be keeping this piece of paper... and i will go back to get her number id or whatever it is they identify cops by.

and she advised me to complain about the treatment i recieved

what is your opinons on this?

ianagarrison
If they thought you were doing 120mph, why would they not intend to prosecute?

Makes no sense.
The Rookie
You should read H V Guidlford youth court http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?d...;method=boolean

I suspect the YL behind the desk should have said no such thing, but H is very specific!

While I deplore the way you say you were treated (and clearly I only have one side of the story), that doesn't change the alleged facts before the stop!

Simon
paddy0612
no point in trying then

when i get prosetucted it will be a joke trying to get car insurance so i guess i'll just plop onto 2 wheels tbh ...

got a quote of £500 third party on a honda cbr 600rr ... thats currently but later it'll increase i know

i'l do my best but will take whatever happens, just got to wait and see...

i'l stop trying to deivate this and that etc etc no point cos i was speeding although 120mph is abit exaggerative oh well just a waiting game
bluegolfboy
Two wheels is THE way to go...

I have a DD40 & SP50 on licence. Car insurance, even on a 1.4 Golf worth £400 is well over £1500... The Golf I was looking at had around 70BHP and a top speed around 95mph with 0-60 of 'eventually'...

My new quote for my ZX6R is £184!!!!!!!! 0-60 sub 4 secs, 110 BHP (proven) and a top speed of 168mph verified by Garmen... Reckon 170mph should be achievable! smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

Where exactly is the common sense I wonder???

Good luck again with your current predicament. I hope it does go away but should things change then 'bump' the thread back on up the page and post the new details. There is ALWAYS an error from my personal experience. I so far have no less than FOUR blatant errors in my case which are easily proven. Whether or not these nullify the outcome I will find out in February...
Zed Victor One
QUOTE (paddy0612 @ Thu, 18 Dec 2008 - 08:49) *
today i was at the police station

spoke to a nice (pretty lady) lols

explained i would like to know if i was being prosetuced or not for ''speeding'' she said they didnt give me a ticket thus theyv let me off and put this in writing...

(all our communication was pen and paper unlike the cops that pulled me who didnt bother)

im going to be keeping this piece of paper... and i will go back to get her number id or whatever it is they identify cops by.

and she advised me to complain about the treatment i recieved

what is your opinons on this?


Irrespective of the speeding offence you should still have been treated in a proper and respectful manner and should also have had any allegations or intended prosecution explained to you in a way that you could understand.
If the police stop an immigrant who does not speak english they are obliged to engage the services of a translator, via language line or similar, in order that they fully understand what is being said to them. The same courtesey should also be extended to some one in your circumstances.
Sadly it's a bit of a Catch 22 situation in that people are reluctant to complain and if they don't this sort of behaviour goes unchecked.
paddy0612
hi again sorry for bumping this thread once again

say they do prosetuce me for 120mph

courts are in favour of the piggies

i get banned, when i come off the ban is it my liensce when i apply comes back to me as a full liensce with 3points and a ban?

AND

i would like to do my bike test roughly feb/march if i pass the bike test and buy a bike... and insure it then get banned do i automatically get my bike liensce back after the ban? or is it ideal to wait it out?

AND

is it better to sell my car as soon as possible because my car is worth £3000, insurance was £1600 which i paid in full if i cancel i estimate £1000 ish back from insurance alone and the car dough back ? (just thinking of the odds... what to do etc in case... i dont want to have my trousers pulled down...)
jobo
hi mate

yes you get your licience back as it was plus a ban on it

no new points

yes if they ban you they ban you of a bike as well. but you get it back when your ban finishes

id sell it now and buy a cheap run about, as the odds are against you and its a lot easer to sell if you can demonstrate it

note you are suposed to tell your insurance if youve got one pending
paddy0612
ok cheers jobo

will be taking my personal reg off and selling my beloved VTS lol

i have access to 3 other cars will just use them in the meantime...

wont be telling insurance will just cancel it smile.gif if the vts goes...

edit ( i dont even know if i am being prosetuced or not or whats going on so i cant tell insurance anything yet, althou if i am prosetucted essex police will have their hands full! got numbers of deaf organistations, people, and solictor ... i am fully prepared. )

paddy0612
hello, sorry for bumping this thread

saw a un-marked police officer in a 30 zone with a handheld gun... i was doing approx 25mph and i stopped just after i noticed him kind of hiding behind a lampost.

got out and walked up to him and said i didnt like what he was doing considering i only saw him because i had my headlights on full beam in a 30... anyway

i asked him to check if i had any prosetuctions pending, he got onto the radio and his little computer handheld one and said theres nothing pending against me...and promped to check my car and insurance tax, the usual stuff... which was all above board as usual hence i wasnt worried about stopping and havin a chat with him, didnt talk to him directly all the time had a pen and paper in my car... however i read on here that he wouldnt know if it was a direct prosetuction?

bear in mind the offence this thread is about was at the end of oct and i have heard nothing since... does that mean im not being prosetucted? and by the way iv booked my bike test its in febuary biggrin.gif looking forwards to it hopefully purchasing a cbr600rr in the summer or so biggrin.gif

but what are your opinons on this?

or do i still have to wait for the 6month rule
paddy0612
anyone?
bama
wait - don't wake a sleeping dog, it may snap at you.
jobo
i dont know if the pnc has all pending cases on it, but i would doubt it

so i wouldn't breath easily yet

see what other know
paddy0612
i will hold my breath for now...
diet coke
still not heard anything?
The Rookie
Blimey, they have 6 months form the date of the alleged offence to lay info for a summons which could arrive upto 2 months after, don't get all het up for that long!

Simon
paddy0612
still not arrived the summons lol.
jobo
fingers still crossed for you
vw driver
Did I read earlier in this thread that the OP talked to a policewoman at the local station who stated that he was not being prosecuted by the officers and had been let off?
unsure.gif
jobo
QUOTE (paddy0612 @ Thu, 18 Dec 2008 - 08:49) *
today i was at the police station

spoke to a nice (pretty lady) lols

explained i would like to know if i was being prosetuced or not for ''speeding'' she said they didnt give me a ticket thus theyv let me off and put this in writing...

(all our communication was pen and paper unlike the cops that pulled me who didnt bother)

im going to be keeping this piece of paper... and i will go back to get her number id or whatever it is they identify cops by.

and she advised me to complain about the treatment i recieved

what is your opinons on this?


she seems yo have said that as he not been fpned he been let off, but maybe she didnt know about the 120mph or maybe she had no idea whay she was taking about

or maybe she was right
paddy0612
i wouldnt disclose the offence with her such as details of when, where, and what mph

but she explained that as they had not given me anything such as a ticket etc and the length of time that had passed, i have therefore got away with it

... iv got this in writing in my dads filing cabinet.



i wouldnt disclose the offence with her such as details of when, where, and what mph

but she explained that as they had not given me anything such as a ticket etc and the length of time that had passed, i have therefore got away with it

... iv got this in writing in my dads filing cabinet.

paddy0612
still not heard anything

1month left for them to summons me is that correct?...
jobo
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 4 Feb 2009 - 10:58) *
Blimey, they have 6 months form the date of the alleged offence to lay info for a summons which could arrive upto 2 months after, don't get all het up for that long!

Simon
london_boy
QUOTE (paddy0612 @ Tue, 20 Jan 2009 - 01:18) *
hello, sorry for bumping this thread

saw a un-marked police officer in a 30 zone with a handheld gun... i was doing approx 25mph and i stopped just after i noticed him kind of hiding behind a lampost.

got out and walked up to him and said i didnt like what he was doing considering i only saw him because i had my headlights on full beam in a 30... anyway

i asked him to check if i had any prosetuctions pending, he got onto the radio and his little computer handheld one and said theres nothing pending against me...and promped to check my car and insurance tax, the usual stuff... which was all above board as usual hence i wasnt worried about stopping and havin a chat with him, didnt talk to him directly all the time had a pen and paper in my car... however i read on here that he wouldnt know if it was a direct prosetuction?

bear in mind the offence this thread is about was at the end of oct and i have heard nothing since... does that mean im not being prosetucted? and by the way iv booked my bike test its in febuary biggrin.gif looking forwards to it hopefully purchasing a cbr600rr in the summer or so biggrin.gif

but what are your opinons on this?

or do i still have to wait for the 6month rule


Erm..... I thought you were so profoundly deaf that you couldn't understand what the filth were saying to you when you were originally stopped and had to use written notes, but now you're walking up to one and asking him all sorts of stuff and 'chatting'? Was this all via written notes too?
paddy0612
been yonks since iv been on this site, hope your all keeping well

still heard NOTHING haha... maybe got away with it ? who knows ? lol ah well

good site though some good advice on here

paddy0612
ermmmmmmm is it safe to assume iv gotten away with it? its nearly august now? lol... the offence was oct 31st / nov 1st and iv since sold the saxo vts that i was caught with and i now own a different car
The Rookie
The change of ownership is irrelevant.....

They had 6 months to lay information for a summons, the summons would usually have been sent out within a month of that time (so your on the cusp), have you changed address since such that any summons (which would go to your address at the time) would no longer arrive? If so have you notified DVLA of the change of address?

Simon
paddy0612
na avnt changed address mate lived at the same one for over 10years
paddy0612
i assume nothing is coming of this incident.. as i have not heard anything and its well over the time limit, il say iv had a lucky escape tbh smile.gif
jobo
i think 9 months on your looking pretty safe:D
paddy0612
biggrin.gif cheers jobo biggrin.gif
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