Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Help with N.Ireland PACE letter....??
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Nozzer
Im going to send my NIP back to the good gentleman/women of the PSNI shortly, unsigned and attached to a PACE witness statement.

I would be greatful with help with the wording, as im not sure if the standard English format will apply. Heres word for word the N.Irish NIP i received:

Dear Sir/Madam,


NOTICE OF INTENDED PROSECUTION

VEHICLE REGISTRATION NUMBER *** ****

In accordance with article 5, of the road traffic offenders act (NI) Order 1996, I hereby give you notice that is intended to take proceedings against the driver of vehicle:

*** **** Land Rover Freelander

For the alleged offence (speed 86 MPH) Excess speed (60 MPH Limit)

At **:** on **/**/2004

At (place) ** ***** ***** ******* ** ********

Contrary to Article 43 RTR (NI) Ord. 1997

THIS ALLEGATION IS SUPPORTED BY VIDEO/PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE

You are recorded as the Owner/Keeper/Hirer of the above vehicle at the time of the alleged offence and you are required to provide the full name and address of the driver at the time of the alleged offence.

OR

You have been named as the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence. If this is so, you are required to provide your full name and address and date of birth. If you were not the driver at the time of the alleged offence, you are required to give any information in your power which may lead to the drivers identification.

UNDER ARTICLE 177 OF THE ROAD TRAFFIC (NI) ORDER 1981 YOU ARE REQUIRED TO SUPPLY THE INFORMATION REQUESTED ABOVE WITHIN 21 DAYS OF THE DATE OF THIS NOTICE. ON CONVICTION FOR FAILURE TO SUPPLY THE INFORMATION, THE PENALTY IS SIMILAR TO THAT FOR THE ALLEGED OFFENCE ITSELF, eg BOTH A FINE AND PENALTY POINTS.


For The Chief Constable.

Thats the front of the NIP and heres the back:

IMPORTANT NOTE : ONLY THE PERSON TO WHOM THIS NOTICE IS ADDRESSED SHOULD COMPLETE THE RELEVANT SECTION BELOW, NOTICES ADDRESSED TO A COMPANY MAY BE COLLECTED BY A NOMINATED EMPLOYEE, GIVING DETAILS OF THE DRIVER

INFORMATION PROVIDED UNDER ARTICLE 177 OF THE ROAD TRAFFIC (NI) ORDER 1981
ALL NAMES AND ADDRESSES TO BE IN BLOCK CAPITALS FULLY COMPLETE AND SIGN THE APPROPRIATE PART.

PLEASE NOTE: INFORMATION SUPPLIED IN THE FIXED PENALTY PROCESS MAY BE USED FOR OTHER POLICE PURPOSES.

PART 1 IF YOU WERE THE DRIVER AT THE TIME OF THE ALLEGED OFFENCE
I was the driver of the vehicle described overleaf at the time of the alleged offence RESTRICTED DRIVER
Driver licence Yes No
Number………………………………..........................

FULL NAME ( BLOCK CAPITALS)

ADDRESS (BLOCK CAPITALS)
POST CODE
SIGNED Date

PART 2: IF YOU WERE NOT THE DRIVER AT THE TIME OF THE ALLEGED OFFENCE, COMPLETE THIS SECTION GIVING DETAILS OF THE DRIVER.

I was not the driver of the vehicle described overleaf at the time of the alleged offence.
I NOMINATE THE DRIVER AS:

FULL NAME ( BLOCK CAPITALS) DATE OF BIRTH


ADDRESS (BLOCK CAPITALS)
POST CODE
SIGNED Date
PART 3: IF YOU HAD SOLD DISPOSED OF THE VEHICLE OR HAD RETURNED IT TO THE HIRE COMPANY, COMPLETE THIS SECTION.

I was not the owner/keeper/hirer of the vehicle at the time stated on the notice because I sold/disposed of/returned

FULL NAME ( BLOCK CAPITALS)

ADDRESS (BLOCK CAPITALS)
POST CODE
On (date) at (time)
SIGNED Date
PART 4 IF YOU HAD BOUGHT/ACQUIRED THE VEHICLE AFTER THE DATE OF THE ALLEGED OFFENCE, COMPLETE THIS SECTION.

I was not the Owner/Keeper of the vehicle at the time stated on the notice because I Bought/acquired it from:

FULL NAME ( BLOCK CAPITALS)

ADDRESS (BLOCK CAPITALS)
POST CODE
SIGNED Date

PART 5 IF YOU HAVE NEVER OWNED THE VEHICLE I have never been the owner/keeper/Hirer of the Vehicle.

Signed Date

Could i use the standard PACE letter as posted by Mika on this site, or does it need changed in anyway..
Cheers in advance laugh.gif
Nozzer
Just to add to the above post, when the NIP came it was sent by recorded delivery.

There wasnt anyone in at the time to sign for it, so my wife went to the post office and she signed for it,

It was addressed to me.....Does this make a difference??
Insider
Nozzer,

I thought we'd sorted this, or is this another one??? icon_wink.gif


PS. Nice to see another new member 8)
Nozzer
Hi insider,

This is the same NIP mate, but if i cant be given points i might aswell send a PACE in to try out the system over here....All i needed really was the wording of the PACE attachment, as the 1 you send in England might be slightly different to the 1 that needs to be sent over here?

Also there may come a day, when the law changes and points can be given on a English/DVLA issued licence, in N.Ireland and/or N.Irish members of this site might find it helpful to know what to send back with there NIP`s.

My 21 days is up next Tuesday.....
Insider
QUOTE (nozzer)
but if i cant be given points i might aswell send a PACE in to try out the system over here


icon_wink.gif

QUOTE (nozzer)
All i needed really was the wording of the PACE attachment, as the 1 you send in England might be slightly different to the 1 that needs to be sent over here?


As far as i'm aware, PACE in NI is the same as the england/wales. Before sending though it may be a good idea to sound out one of the more in-depth experts on PACE available on here

QUOTE (nozzer)
Also there may come a day, when the law changes and points can be given on a English/DVLA issued licence, in N.Ireland and/or N.Irish members of this site might find it helpful to know what to send back with there NIP`s.


Very probably when they realise that their 'little sidestep' hasn't fooled anybody laugh.gif icon_redface.gif


Calling PACE Experts. icon_wink.gif
Nozzer
Hi,

Firstly thanks to Mika & Jackie, who have helped me out.

Well just to recap quickly, i was caught by a forward facing Mobile camera, doing  86 in a 60 on the 20th Of November.

An NIP arrived on the 23rd November by recorded delivery, after humming and aring for a while and checking my position in relation to the Law in N.Ireland (which appears to be exactly the same as the mainland) i decided to attach a PACE letter to the NIP and sent it back by registered post on the 27th December.

Today (31st December) i have received a conditional offer of fixed penalty (£60-00 and 3 points) theres no reference to the PACE i sent other than to say they now have evidence that i was the driver (no s**t sherlock)

What now are my options?
Do i write back and refuse there (very kind) offer?
Do i have any case at all, if they have me on camera?
If (looking ahead) it does go to court, i stand up and say what?

Thanks and have a good New Year!!
DW190
They have every right to send you a conditional offer.  After all you have provided all the information so why not go for your money.

Now its the waiting game and see if they choose to ignore the fact you have not been cautioned and issue a summons for a criminal offence.

By refusing their offer you give them more time.  By ignoring their offer you will probably receive a reminder.  Afetr that who knows.
Mika
Nozzer,

In your position, I wouldn’t do anything and here are a few points:

1) The photograph may be of no evidential value – there is further information on our member’s forum.

2) If you do receive a summons, you do not have to attend court and, even if you do decide to go along, you cannot be compelled to say anything other than “not guilty”. In any case, you may find that the PACE witness statement has summarised everything that you may wish to say. rolleyes.gif
DW190
Mika wrote
QUOTE
you do not have to attend court


Are you suggesting nozzer lets the court try the case in his absence.

It would be interesting if that were the case to have a plant in the publice gallery to see the approach.
Nozzer
Thanks for the advice,

Im going to wait out and see what happens.

Ill keep you all posted!

Have a good New Year :0)
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.