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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Fighting a alleged offence on the 28th of Sept
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Gman19
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2008
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 58 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - PENRHYS ROAD TYLORSTOWN RHONDDA CYNON TAFF
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The first NIP to the Registered Keeper must arrive within 14 days unless there is a valid reason why that was not possible, for example a recent change of details.

    This link will take you to the advice provided by the RAC's legal team.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:00:24 +0000
ict_guy
Wow. You've given us loads to go on rolleyes.gif
Hotel Oscar 87
Hi Gman

A couple of things.

1. A little more detail would help - for example there is clearly an explanation as to why the NIP took 58 days to reach you if it was indeed dated 5 days after the alleged offence. Could you offer some more detail?
2, You haven't actually specified what it is alleged that you have done. Perhaps you could elaborate?
3. I assume that the constabulary involved is South Wales as I'm damned sure the gibberish that's come out is not that in Welsh as it should be Heddlu De Cymru?
Gman19
What else do you require? smile.gif
Hotel Oscar 87
See the above?

At present we have no idea beyond your having received an NIP. Is this for speeding or some other offence? Do you accept the allegation of not? Finally, as the law requires that an NIP is served within 14 days of an alleged offence, there may well be a route out of this for you that doesn't include a conviction. With a complete lack of detail we can't really assist any further at the moment.
Gman19
ok, i was never actually recieved the first NIP on that date, I recieved a second warning.
I had to phone them up and ask for them to send a copy of the first one. But no reason was give for the delay.
Speeding 42mph in a 30 mph fixed speed camera, I am about to request the photographs to chek this as i believe it to be incorrect.
South wales is the area yes biggrin.gif

thanks guys
Hotel Oscar 87
What document did you receive first? Can you describe what it said? When you telephoned the police what information did you give them?
Why do you believe the speed to be wrong?

Although you have said that you didn't receive the first NIP is there a reason for that? Have you been out of the country, for example? Are you aware of any problems with your mail delivery? Had you recently acquired the car/vehicle involved?

I suggest that you do not write and ask for the photos at the moment as the delay in your receipt of the NIP may well be a bar to any conviction. In other words no fine no points is a possibility. So, if we could concentrate on that first the photos may become relevant later.
Gman19
Do you require any other information?
Hotel Oscar 87
Not at the moment but see the above post. To cut down the amount of tooing and froing it would also be helpful if yoiu gave us a chance to reply. Few of us are speed typists!
Gman19
right.
The first document i recieved was a letter which read "I refer to the Notice of Intended Prosecution served concerning the alleged offence, details of which are outlined below and write to advise that the driver information form has not been received at this office."
it continues with my details, then reads "the driver information form should have been completed and returned to this office within 28 days of the date of issue and i would ask that this form be returned within 10 days of the date......"
The date on the letter is 20/11/08.

When i telephoned the office, I gave them the reference number and I said that I hadn't recieved the first notice and i require them to send it to me.

I believed the speeding to be wrong because simply i do not speed, esspecially in 30 mph zones with speed cameras, i certainly would not be doing 42 mph.

I haven't been out of the country, no problem with the mail, I bought the car at the start of the year.

thank you for your help
Hotel Oscar 87
I'm having to guess a little here but are you saying that you are unaware of any problem with your mail. Is this the only item you are aware of that has gone missing? Although this might sound odd it is nonetheless relevant, how soon after receiving the reminder did you contact the office?
Gman19
Yes, to my knowledge there is no problem with my mail. This is the only item I am aware that has gone missing.
I recieved the letter when i came in from work on the 24th of this month, and contacted them on the following morning the 25th.
Hotel Oscar 87
The fact that you have responded promptly to the reminder goes in your favour in that you can properly argue that had you in fact received the original NIP you would have acted with similar speed. The situation is that the law requires that an NIP is served on the RK of a vehicle involved in an alleged offence within 14 days of the offence and there is a presumption that it is served unless evidence is adduced to rebut that presumption. Have a read of the advice here which summarises the law regarding NIP and service.

Whether the original NIP was served out-of-time or not the fact that you have since received a further notice - to which a Sec. 172 requirement for you to name the driver at the time of the alleged offence is attached - means that it would be wise for you to reply to that without too much further delay (given that you have been granted 10 days in which to reply) in order to avoid prosecution for "failing to furnish" which now carries 6 points and a fine, usually, in the region of £300.

I suggest that you attach to your reply a RAC letter (see the link at the bottom of your original post done through the NIP Wizard) suitably personalised for your circumstances.

You are likely to receive a conditional offer of fixed penalty (£60 plus 3 points), regardless of your letter, and the choice will be yours as to whether you accept that offer and have the matter go away or refuse to pay (on the basis of the apparently out-of-time NIP) and have the matter go to court. Cases involving out-of-time NIP's are rarely dealt with administratively.

After reading through the recommended posts you may feel that you should seek professional legal advice.
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