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moggers
CHECK NIP WIZARD RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM (POST 9) - CHEERS

dear all

would really apreciate your time and help on this matter if you would.....really feeling the crunch at the minute and 3 points +raised premiums aere NOT what i need right now in renewal season! not been a great year. :-(

ANyway was travelling on the M40 motorway to london from birmingham, think it was after the oxford services. I got caught on these traffic camera on the temporary speed limit of 50mph. It wasnt all that clear but i guess it was clear enough. I was going 57mph by their estimation. ...strikes me a little harsh to go all out for points.

Isnt there a leeway limit? a mate has always told me about 10%+4 rule...is this at all right?
also what about these speeding classes?

What are my options? I received a letter from the police asking me to confirm the driver, which i returned. i then got a letter back which was a conditional offer of fixed penalty.
I have scanned it in and posted it on:


NB: there is a bit etched out as i am using a demo of a pdf editer ....(if anyone has any freeware pdf editors i would be grateful!!) ...and the bit you cant see i have typed out below:

IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO CONTEST THE MATTER THEN IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO DEAL WITH IT BY A FIXED PENALTY OF £60 AND THE ENDORSEMENT OF 3 PENALTY POINTS ON YOUR LICENCE, BY POST WITHOUT THE NEED FOR COURT PROCEEDINGS.

cheers for your help.

Moggers
ohmy.gif
jobo
will you do the nip wizard for us as there is other info which may be usefull
ict_guy
If this is the average speed section (A46 turnoff) of 50 MPH then you have been done at an average speed of 57 MPH. There is usually a tolerance (certainly within the West Midlands) of 10%+2 with fixed speed cameras, but very little tolerance with the SPECS average speed systems. You have not been offered a speed awareness course only a COFP - £60 fine and 3 points.
Gaza
QUOTE (ict_guy @ Tue, 18 Nov 2008 - 20:56) *
There is usually a tolerance (certainly within the West Midlands) of 10%+2 with fixed speed cameras


The ACPO tolerance levels are pretty much UK wide. However, the common misconception is that this is the upper limit of the tolerance but it is not. It is the level at which enforcement begins e.g. 40 limit, enforcement begins at 40+10%+2=44, 50 limit: 50+10%+2=57, etc, etc.

QUOTE (moggers @ Tue, 18 Nov 2008 - 19:19) *
I was going 57mph by their estimation. ...strikes me a little harsh to go all out for points.


In theory they could prosecute for 51 mph but as above they tend not to prosecute until the speed is 10%+2mph.

Many insurance companies are ignoring one speeding offence. Have a play around on confused.com and try quotes with and without a fixed penalty.


moggers
NIP wizard didnt give me much.

thanksfor hte info....sounds like i pretty much need to take the hit ...OUCH! just seems a little harsh on the works section tht was 50limit ....only to be doingthe edge of the limit ....and much of the journey ws infact with a normal limit.

anyway here is what the wizard said:

The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.




Important notice
Because you didn't answer the additional questions needed for a forum post the Wizard wasn't able to construct one for you.

Please do not just copy and paste the information on this page into a forum post - it doesn't contain all the information other members would need to be able to help you. If you want help with this NIP in the forums then please run the Wizard again, and this time click on the Additional Questions button and fill in the information requested.




Answers given so far
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

jobo
hi mate

the idea is that you hit the additional questions button and the nip and all info apears in your post so we have all the info and can see if theres any hole in their case

try again
moggers
ok gotcha ...done it plus posted NIP as well as conditional offer on :

cheers
m

PS how do i safely upload form?
The Rookie
You have of course neglected to add the output to this thread which is the fundamental reason for doing it!

Congratulations on 100% IDing both your case and you, not smart, get that link off quick if I were you!

Interesting to note that they think they can revoke the licence of a 'new driver' who carries an EU driving licence, not sure how they are going to work that!

Simon
moggers
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2008
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M40 SB J15 153/3 to 153/0
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was travelling down from birmingham to london on a sunday evening around 9pm. This was just after the oxford services.

There were road works but little if any warning. the road seemed to rather suddently narrow from 4 lanes to 2 - it all seemed rather chaotic. The change of speed was rather sudden without the usual warning you get, and it was displayed via a roadside sign which was rathe poorly lit. The whole area was poorly lit to be honest. There was a speed camera shortly after the sign and another not far after. both flashed me but as i only got one ticket I am assumed by the second i slowed down sufficiently.

not sure if there are any other detaisl that people might want but do write away!!

I have scnaned the nip and the conditional offer for you to view but i dont know how to upload them. can someone help please?

cheers
m



NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:41:01 +0000
The Rookie
M40 Junction 15 is at Warwick, a long way before the Oxford services, even before the Warwick services (first services on the M40), Road is three lane right through these roadworks, I think you have the wrong ones!

These roadwroks are covered by SPECS average sped cameras, they don't flash at all, so you may well have more NIP's coming from this journey!

These roadworks are well signed in daylight, not been through in the dark though to confirm the lighting status.

Simon


moggers
hhmmm good point simon.

i hope not ....but given its been over 6 weeks, I am probably wrong about the area or services. It was certainly after one of the services as we switched drivers for other to sleep.

here is a new link:

http://freepdfhosting.com/4292e1c8a2.pdf

and

http://freepdfhosting.com/d492a79edd.pdf
The Rookie
The only services on the M40 are after junction 15 as you head south, and the incident you remember cannot be when you were pinged, if you swapped driver at a services on the M40, the first driver has to be the one who was driving at junction15 (your only 30 minutes from Birmingham by then.

Simon

moggers
well thank's simon.

ok further interogation of the witness (aka driver) revealed that indeed you are right ..it was "way before the oxford services" - we must have changed on the M42. There was definately flashing at that point and if there are more penalties ...then after 6-7 weeks i guess there is something to argue about.

any change of appeal or is it looking pretty grim? I guess there always has to be a cut off but i am pretty miffed as it was pretty much on it and i wasnt offered an awareness course. I just hope like you say I wont be penalised too much in terms of my renewals.

cheers
m
peodude
Has the NIP been filled in and returned within 28 days? If not, the speeding issue is no longer your worry.

As terminal (speed limit) signs (apart from 30) are required to be lit, then if you was travelling at night, you may have a chance with that.
The Rookie
The SPECS cameras at J15 DO NOT FLASH.....any flashing you saw wasn't related to this NIP!

What are you trying to 'appeal'? what does the driver currently have, do they have an offer of a fixed penalty? Have they responded to the NIP naming the driver? Its very unclear what stage of the 'game' you are at!

Simon

moggers
Simon - thanks for your help.

I have provided links to 2 pdf files:
1st is a NIP - issued shortly after the offence.
2nd is the conditional offer (presumably only issued after the first is replied to); i.e. 3 points and £60. the driver (my wife) has 30 days to respond. 30 is nearly up.

not sure how much more clear I can be.

I respect your superior knowledge of the roads but there was definitely a flash. I appreciate that this could also relate to a different incident.

The issue around the lighting is an interesting one ...and i wonder if that is an avenue I can still pursue.
cjard
QUOTE (moggers @ Wed, 26 Nov 2008 - 00:55) *
The issue around the lighting is an interesting one ...and i wonder if that is an avenue I can still pursue.


Your wife can probably only reasonably pursue it if:
a) she hasnt accepted the FPN
b) the terminal sign is still there, still unlit and photographable, within 50 metres of a street lamp and the road is designated a trunk or principle road.. I see reference that motorways are typically "trunk roads" but you'd need to double check that the section of motorway youre interested in, is a trunk road
cjard
QUOTE (peodude @ Sun, 23 Nov 2008 - 12:04) *
As terminal (speed limit) signs (apart from 30) are required to be lit,


I don't think there's an exception for 30mph terminal signs.. see http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_limit_signs.htm#lighting
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