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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
sb215
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - November 2008
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A44 New Rd towards Malvern (G), CA07 WORCESTER BEDWARDINE
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Never driven in this area before so not aware of road layouts, speed signs etc. Clocked by a fixed camera at 36 in an apparent 30 limit.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:31:53 +0000
Pete D
Well you have not asked any questions or in fact questioned the alleged speed. That road has compliant street lighting and no speed roundals as it is not required as it is a default 30mph. All you can do is write to them as ask for any photo's to help identify the driver. Do Not elaborate or use the words evidence or proof. When you get the photo's, they do not have to send them but mostly do, you can measure the number of markers you travelled in the 0.5 or 0.7 seconds between the flashes and work out your speed. It is very easy to speed on that road as you have just come out of a complex road system of Worcester and the road opens out once you come across the bridge but it is a 30 just the same. The camera is just outside the Cricket Ground car park entrance on your left after you came across the bridge. Pete D
Transit man
A perfect example of entrapment IMHO, that road is perfect for a 40 limit, 3 lanes one way, very few pedestrians & for the ones that there are, very wide pavements & pelican crossings. My father in law foolishly fell into their little piggy bank at 5 AM one morning doing the atrocious, insane, baby killing speed of 35 mph.

Designed purely to embezzle strangers & anyone not keeping one eye on the speedo, as opposed to watching the road.



Unfortunately, in my in laws case, the camera was accurate inasmuch as we went & measured the gaps (2 meters), worth getting the piccies, at least it wastes a bit of their time & gets you a souvenir.
jobo
i though two vehicles in the frame invalidated the picies
Pete D
Yes the detail that in section 9.4 of the ACPO guidelines but that is under the heading of Hand-Held Radar asthere is no secondary check to identify the vehicle. If two vehicles are in a Gatso frame and the markings support the detected speed then they proceed to issue a NIP. And in this case it was a push bike. Pete D
ict_guy
QUOTE (Transit man @ Tue, 18 Nov 2008 - 12:41) *
A perfect example of entrapment IMHO, that road is perfect for a 40 limit, 3 lanes one way, very few pedestrians & for the ones that there are, very wide pavements & pelican crossings. My father in law foolishly fell into their little piggy bank at 5 AM one morning doing the atrocious, insane, baby killing speed of 35 mph.

Designed purely to embezzle strangers & anyone not keeping one eye on the speedo, as opposed to watching the road.



Unfortunately, in my in laws case, the camera was accurate inasmuch as we went & measured the gaps (2 meters), worth getting the piccies, at least it wastes a bit of their time & gets you a souvenir.


Overtaking a cyclist, the safest thing to do is increase your speed slightly - to complete the overtake in a shorter time, especially as you are approaching a right hander. I mean, you wouldn't wont to be on the wrong side of the road for any longer than you needed!!

Bloody camera's!!!!!
Pete D
That is a one way road. DooooH. Pete D
Lorraine1000
QUOTE (Pete D @ Tue, 18 Nov 2008 - 16:07) *
Yes the detail that in section 9.4 of the ACPO guidelines but that is under the heading of Hand-Held Radar asthere is no secondary check to identify the vehicle. If two vehicles are in a Gatso frame and the markings support the detected speed then they proceed to issue a NIP. And in this case it was a push bike. Pete D


i sure i see some where a while back that a person went to court and they classed his push bike as a vehicle. cant remember the full details of it


Lorraine1000

davepoth
Surely the hi-vis stuff on that guy's jacket are going to give an odd reading since it will easily be the strongest radar reflecting surface in the shot, and continually moving back and forth as he pedals?
vxr.corsa
Quick sign that cyclist up for team GB 35 mph is a class speed wink.gif . On a serious note how do they know who was going 35 mph, there are 2 people/modes of transport it that photo. I know in all probability it is the van and the person on the bike looks like the postie but can(do they need to)they prove it?
cjard
QUOTE (vxr.corsa @ Wed, 19 Nov 2008 - 00:01) *
I know in all probability it is the van and the person on the bike looks like the postie but can(do they need to)they prove it?


Distance travelled divided by time taken gives the speed. The cyclist hasnt travelled enough distance in the time, so yes, they can show it was the van that set the camera off
Transit man
I showed these photos to show what a money making spot it is for a scamera.

We went back & checked the spaces (2 meters), assuming the camera is accurate at taking photos 1/2 sec apart, the speed was correct. In this instance there was never any argument re the speed, just the stupidity of the camera placement. My father in law just paid up, no offer of speed awareness course either.
ict_guy
QUOTE (Pete D @ Tue, 18 Nov 2008 - 22:32) *
That is a one way road. DooooH. Pete D


Well, all the more reason to go faster!!
Pete D
My comment was with regards to "I mean, you wouldn't wont to be on the wrong side of the road for any longer than you needed!!" there is no wrong side it is a one way road. The comment "Well, all the more reason to go faster!!" I did not know a one way arrow meant go faster. Lets stick to the OP's thread and help him out. Pete D
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