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J Lebowski
Hi folks, looking for some advice, long time reader but first time poster.

Will try and be as concise as possible tongue.gif

Few weeks ago i was coming along the M8 in Glasgow as you do and whilst driving my neck chain was snagged on my shirt or the seat upholstery. Briefly tried to fix it and couldn't do had both hands behind my neck to free it off (yes i know in black and white its two hands off the steering wheel whilst >50mph).

Anyway in true luck the traffic oinkers were behind me and pulled me over. Expecting a telling off and take it on the chin head bowed and grovel apology i was then absolutely stunned when he said i was being charged for reckless driving and reported to the fiscals.

Brief summary is conditions were good and the road wasn't too busy. And i specifically mentioned about my speed they said i was over the limit a little but not for long enough to get a reading and the speed wasn't anything to do with why i was being reported. Obviously in addition to this there was no other vehicle involved and no accident, etc occurred.

Now i'm figuring this isn't going to be a fixed penalty and with it going to the PF i will eventually get a summons though the back log at the moment is huge in terms of them turning cases around.

I know there is no definitive answer but im wondering if there is a rule of thumb or guideline to what i might get.

The reason i am asking this - and this leads into another question - is i currently have points on my license.

With offence happening two weeks ago the afore mentioned points are coming off my license as of the 12th December 2008.........this may sound silly but say for instance it goes to court on the 14th December and i am quilty what is the situation with the initial three points. Is the totting up process backdated to reflect the date of the offence or is it the date of conviction?

Finally, and this is me being paranoid, given that i work for the emergency services in a civilian capacity i have an inkling they will want to make an example of me huh.gif

Thankyou
arthurc
Any points awarded are from the date of the offence... not the conviction. So you could be looking at a totting up... but you haven't told us how many points you already have, what for, when and what you've specifically been charged with, so it's difficult to estimate.
J Lebowski
Sorry Arthur, should have said.

SP30 (Dec 05) and an SP50 (Jan 07) so six points currently. SP30 comes off next month.

I was charged on the roadside with reckless driving.
ict_guy
How long were your hands off the wheel for? Seems a bit harsh to me - after all, I'm sure we have all been guilty of this at one time or another. I would have thought a careless driving charge would be more appropriate - the CPS may well go for that instead.
The Rookie
You were not charged at the roadside, you were warned you may be cited for it.....which I suspect will be the case, to be honest you appear to be bang to rights, although you may be able to argue dangerous down to due care and attention based on what you have told us.

Simon
J Lebowski
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 - 10:52) *
although you may be able to argue dangerous down to due care and attention based on what you have told us.

Simon


It was reckless though that i was being reported for.

I'm assuming reckless is similar to careless and is less serious and totally different to dangerous?

I thought it went reckless/careless > dirving without due care and attention > dangerous.

With dangerous being the most serious?
The Rookie
There is no such thing (legally) as reckless driving, there is dangerous or careless and/or inconsiderate.

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.as...amp;SortAlpha=0
sections 2 and 3, 2 mentions 'dangerously' while 3 mentions due acre and attention or without consideration.

I would interpret reckless as dangerous, if you look at items sections 167 and 168 'recklessly' can be either.

For others, could it be argues the OP has not had a valid NIP, or would 'reckless' cover both a section 2 and S3 offence?

Simon
ict_guy
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 - 12:25) *
There is no such thing (legally) as reckless driving, there is dangerous or careless and/or inconsiderate.

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.as...amp;SortAlpha=0
sections 2 and 3, 2 mentions 'dangerously' while 3 mentions due acre and attention or without consideration.

I would interpret reckless as dangerous, if you look at items sections 167 and 168 'recklessly' can be either.

For others, could it be argues the OP has not had a valid NIP, or would 'reckless' cover both a section 2 and S3 offence?

Simon


With dangerous being a mandatory ban. As I said before, seems very harsh to me!!
magistrate
QUOTE (ict_guy @ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 - 18:15) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 - 12:25) *
There is no such thing (legally) as reckless driving, there is dangerous or careless and/or inconsiderate.

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.as...amp;SortAlpha=0
sections 2 and 3, 2 mentions 'dangerously' while 3 mentions due acre and attention or without consideration.

I would interpret reckless as dangerous, if you look at items sections 167 and 168 'recklessly' can be either.

For others, could it be argues the OP has not had a valid NIP, or would 'reckless' cover both a section 2 and S3 offence?

Simon


With dangerous being a mandatory ban. As I said before, seems very harsh to me!!
just looked at my mags guidelines an careless driving starts withmomentary loss of concentration or misjudgement at low speed band a fine 50% of relavent income and 3 points,next is loss of control due to speed or insufficient attention to road conditions .band b fine ,100% of relavent weekly income .3to 4 points,you will get 30% off the fine for pleading guilty of course !!!! but i think you fit between these two
the cps will go for careless driving not dangerous .my advice is to consult a soliciter asap.

QUOTE (magistrate @ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 - 21:38) *
QUOTE (ict_guy @ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 - 18:15) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 - 12:25) *
There is no such thing (legally) as reckless driving, there is dangerous or careless and/or inconsiderate.

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.as...amp;SortAlpha=0
sections 2 and 3, 2 mentions 'dangerously' while 3 mentions due acre and attention or without consideration.

I would interpret reckless as dangerous, if you look at items sections 167 and 168 'recklessly' can be either.

For others, could it be argues the OP has not had a valid NIP, or would 'reckless' cover both a section 2 and S3 offence?

Simon


With dangerous being a mandatory ban. As I said before, seems very harsh to me!!
just looked at my mags guidelines an careless driving starts withmomentary loss of concentration or misjudgement at low speed band a fine 50% of relavent income and 3 points,next is loss of control due to speed or insufficient attention to road conditions .band b fine ,100% of relavent weekly income .3to 4 points,you will get 30% off the fine for pleading guilty of course !!!! but i think you fit between these two
the cps will go for careless driving not dangerous .my advice is to consult a soliciter asap.sorry i meant to say this is in england of course not scotland
Andrew Flusche
It's interesting to see the differences in reckless driving in the UK vs. here in the United States.

If a Virginia state trooper saw you driving with no hands on the wheel, he'd probably cite you for reckless driving as well. You'd end up with a fine of probably 200 USD. You could even go to jail, depending upon the precise circumstances and your prior record. Definitely not fun.
J Lebowski
Fiscals eventually charged me with Dangerous Driving - despite both officers reporting it as Careless on their witness statements - due to appear for trial on Monday but word back today that the PF have dropped all charges and are not progressing with it further. Result !

Thanks for the help and advice.
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