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JayJay99
As the title says, I was caught by a camera and was not notified within 14 days, I sent of the letter without thinking but later realised it was 27 days after. I wrote to them again and said about this and they said "no, we wrote to you within on the 12th day". We have written backwards and forwards and the deadline has now passed for me to take the conditional offer of 3 points and a £60 fine. What shall I do? Please help. Here is one of the letters I sent to them, it explains it a bit more.

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[size="3"]15/10/08




Dear Sir/Madam,



I am not receiving replies to my letters which I have sent recorded delivery so I am writing again.

I received a letter from you on the 4th of September regarding a speeding violation on the 8th of August, as I was going away on holiday that day I replied with my information by default as I am the only person that uses that car, I also requested photographic evidence as I was not convinced of the offence. I also noted that I was going to be away on holiday until the 20th of September and would not be able to respond further until then.

While on holiday I realised that this was 27 days after the offence and according to the Metropolitan Police website “a notice of intended prosecution must be served on the registered keeper of the vehicle within 14 days from the date of the alleged offence.” I arrived back from my holiday to have a letter waiting for me dated the 19th of September saying that you have not received any response from me and that you wrote to me on the 20th of August?? This is not correct, I refuse to believe that a letter you sent was delayed in the post by 15 days, nor was this a second letter sent by you as it was written in a way that it was the first time I was being informed of it. Even if a letter was sent on the 20th, that is 12 days after the offence, that gives only 2 days to be posted and received by me, but again I reiterate, I did not receive any correspondence from yourselves until the 4th of September.

I replied to the letter stating that I had already written to you on the 4th of September and that I requested photographic evidence, in this letter I also wrote how I had not been contacted within the 14 days as detailed above. I sent this letter recorded delivery to ensure it got to you.

The following working day, the 22nd of September, I received a letter from you, replying to my letter dated the 4th of September, so the last letter received I assume was sent automatically. In this letter you enclosed the photos of the offence and stated that a letter would follow offering a fixed penalty and points. A week later I received a letter offering 3 points and a £60 fine. I waited for a reply to my letter with regards to not being informed within 14 days and have still not received one, I sent the letter recorded delivery so I know you received it.



I am therefore writing again, for you to confirm that you are no longer following through with this prosecution due to a failure to inform me within the designated 14 days. If you are still insisting, then please provide me with proof that the original letter was written to and received by me within the 14 day deadline. Furthermore, can you please send me a copy (front and back) of the letter I replied to you on the 4th of September as the form is on the back of the letter and because I had to send it back to you I could not keep it.





Many thanks,


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nemo
Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard (including the detailed questions reached by clicking on the Additional Questions button on the second page), and the Wizard will then post its output back here to enable us to help you.
Mr Grumpy
Are you the registered keeper with the DVLA? have you moved house in recent months?
JayJay99
QUOTE (Mr Grumpy @ Tue, 11 Nov 2008 - 22:09) *
Are you the registered keeper with the DVLA? have you moved house in recent months?



I am the registered keeper and I haven't moved house recently. It is also not a rental, lease or company car.
The Rookie
Did you buy the car recently?

Simon
arthurc
They say they wrote to you on 20th August... the offence was 12 days before then so they are within the 14 day time frame. You can't argue that the post takes more than two days - the court believes that it doesn't. Anyway, they only have to prove that they sent it within 14 days. It is deemed to have arrived unless you can prove that it didn't. You saying that you didn't receive it isn't enough.

You received the photographs and a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty - 3pts and £60. You've admitted that you were the driver. Unless you have proof that the letter did not arrive at your address then you have to deal with the offence. Either pay up or decide to plead Not Guilty to the offence.

There is no obligation upon them to reply to any of your letters. They will only reply to legitimate attempts to establish the facts. What you believe or not is immaterial to the facts.

They will prosecute and issue a summons if you don't pay the COFP. You haven't written anything which I can see is a defence.
The Rookie
QUOTE (arthurc @ Tue, 18 Nov 2008 - 10:30) *
They say they wrote to you on 20th August... the offence was 12 days before then so they are within the 14 day time frame. You can't argue that the post takes more than two days - the court believes that it doesn't. Anyway, they only have to prove that they sent it within 14 days. It is deemed to have arrived unless you can prove that it didn't. You saying that you didn't receive it isn't enough.


Frankly that is a load of Tosh....as I've told you before!

It has to be posted such that in the normal course of teh post it will arrive in 14 days (so not sent within 14 days), its deemed served, but the interpretation act clarifies that thet assumption is rebuttable and the OP's sworn evidence (which is all that there is ever likely to be in 95% of cases) is more than adequate as long as they are credable in court.

Simon
arthurc
Well, it isn't totally a load of Tosh... but maybe your fuller explanation helps.

Trotting down to the court and swearing under oath that they didn't receive a NIP is certainly a rebuttal. Would you care to estimate how many times that has been succesful?

Would you really advise someone that what you suggest is "more than adequate"?
The Rookie
Yes, credable sworn witness evidence is more than adequate, adequate is just good enough, so more than is better, there are no gurentees though, if for some reason they find a witness not credable, then the defence would fail.

I don't know of any case that has come on here where the witness has been disbelieved, there have been some incorrect interpretations of the law in court, where although the witness was believed it was deemed not necesary for the NIP to be delivered through a legal error.

Cotton is useful referance:- http://www.bailii.org/scot/cases/ScotHC/2008/HCJAC_8.html

Cotton was aquitted by the court due to a late NIP, HOWEVER as this particular NIP was served registered post (the law stating that registered is deemed delivered even if its not, first class is not) the proc fisc appealed succesfully, so Cotton also confirms how 'good' the lower courts are at screwing up when reading a simple piece of legislation!

The Lefton case is also interesting, they claimed the NIP wasn't recieved, were aquitted, submitted their legal costs which were found to start pre-dating the arrival of the 'reminder NIP' - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7282036.stm, but again, credable sworn verbal evidence sufficed.

Simon
arthurc
Useful to know. Thanks.

I have seen a case on here where an NIP had been sent back with 'Not Known at this Address' written on it, that was accepted as proof it was not served and yes, I've also seen cases where this has been submitted as a defence but there has been some other reason for the case not to be thrown out.



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