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Jack Bauer
Hi all, I’m new on here. A mate told me about the site after I was confused about a recent incident where I was pulled over late at night for speeding.

Earlier in the week I was driving home after seeing a mate in. I was driving down a dual carriageway which has a 50 limit on my way home. It was about 1:30 at night and I was speeding. I realise now I probably shouldn’t have been speeding but at the time I didn’t think much of it as it was late at night.

I was on the last stretch of the carriageway when i saw a car coming up from behind rather quickly. At the time I was probably doing 70 and dropped down to around 60 maybe less. Not long after blue lights come on so I pull over. Turns out it was an undercover police car. I was asked to get into the back where I produced my driving licence. I was asked why I was doing 70-75. For which I said I 'It was late at night and I wasn’t paying full attention'. I did not question that they had said a speed which was above what I think I was doing. (maybe in hindsight I wish I had questioned it and said otherwise).

Anyway I got no breath test, they did not show me a video of me speeding even though the car was fully equipped. I received a producer and was told to expect a letter in the post saying that I can plead guilty via post or go to court where they would appear with the video as evidence. Now this is where the confusing starts. I’ve been told by mates who have been done for speeding that they were shown the evidence in the back of the car before anything else happened. Where a I was not shown this.

The next morning I went to the local police station where I handed over the producer and my relevant documents. After that I asked what the penalty was expected to be to which they replied saying there is no record on here that you were speeding and you haven’t been issued with a ticket.

So my question is did they do this to worry me and get me to slow down (which has worked). Or is it possible for me to receive a ticket or something similar in the post after the incident?

Any input on this would be great as at the moment I can only sit and wait and speculate as to what can happen... Cheers
davidson
They have 6 months to serve you with a summons. It would be useful if you post this up when you receive it blank out your own details for obvious reasons.
Jack Bauer
I recieved it on the 22st of this month at 1:20am. I dont have the producer slip any more as ive been into the local police station to do the producer.

What does a summons mean then?
southpaw82
A summons means a trip to court (unless you plead guilty by post) and a bigger penalty than a fixed penalty notice (3 points and £60).

Try this:

Jack Bauer
Yeah tried that earlier but as im a student im not sure what to put in the income part. Also the officer at the time said it was 70-75. Will they just go for the higher value?

So in the next 6months I should expect a letter in the post? And how come I didnt get a ticket at the time?
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sat, 25 Oct 2008 - 18:06) *
So in the next 6months I should expect a letter in the post? And how come I didnt get a ticket at the time?

They could have issued you with a Fixed Penalty Notice if they'd wanted too, but they clearly decided not to.
nemo
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sat, 25 Oct 2008 - 18:06) *
Yeah tried that earlier but as im a student im not sure what to put in the income part.

If your weekly income is less than £100, then the magistrates are directed to assume a RWI figure of £100.

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sat, 25 Oct 2008 - 18:06) *
Also the officer at the time said it was 70-75. Will they just go for the higher value?

You would have to read the officer's statement to know the answer to that question.

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sat, 25 Oct 2008 - 18:06) *
So in the next 6months I should expect a letter in the post?

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps the officer will report you, perhaps he was just giving you a stern warning. As others have said, you will have to wait and see if anything drops through your letterbox in the next 6 and a bit months.

In the meantime, just get on with the rest of your life and try not to dwell on it too much.

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sat, 25 Oct 2008 - 18:06) *
YAnd how come I didnt get a ticket at the time?

Either because the officer decided not to take it any further, or he felt that the matter should be dealt with by summons rather than fixed penalty.
Jack Bauer
Ok I got caught speeding last year, didn’t fine me on the spot, just got a producer and they said a court summons will be in the post. It’s just turned up sad.gif

Basically I was stopped in a 50mph dual-carriageway at 1 in the morning. They never got an exact reading of my speed but in the police statement that’s come through with the summons it says 'I conducted a check over 3/10 of a mile and recorded speeds between 70-75'. This was when they were far behind me, when I saw a car coming up fast I dropped down to below 60.

They never showed me the tape and it seems they are not showing the tape in court ( I could be wrong though). So I think the only evidence is the officers seeing me over the speed limit and the check to see my speed at 3/10 of a mile. When I was asked what speed I was doing I said I was unsure. I never admitted to speeding. I realise now I could have been done with driving without due care because of that but i am only being charged with exceeding the 50mph limit luckily.

Now I can plead guilty by post, by court or not at all. I am guilty, I was in the wrong but I never said yes I was doing that speed. They recon I was doing 70-75. But with no laser and being shown no footage following me I think this is the speed they did to catch me up. I was at one point doing that speed but it occurred to me last weekend when I fitted my new sat nav that my speado is out by about 10mph. So I was probably doing 60-65. Which if course is still speeding.

So I’m going to plead guilty by post as I can’t afford to pay court fees and lawyer’s fees. I’ve looked up and I can get 4 or 5 points. Fair enough I suppose as I was in the wrong and the paperwork says a fine of up to £60.

Now where I need some advice is filling in the Mitigating Circumstances. I don’t want to admit to doing 70-75 as I believe I wasn’t. But at the same time I don’t want to annoy the court by sounding like an ignorant idiot who hasn’t learnt from his mistakes. I'm lead to believe I'm falling into a trap here. As in the statement from the Police Officer who pulled me over it says 'I now produce the form HO/RT1 as my exhibit number ( ) reference number (DSW/1), I now produce the CD ROM of the incident which can be player on a DVD player as my exhibit number ( ) reference number (DSW/2).' Does that mean there is no video evidence as I’m slightly confused by the blank references?

So if there is no video it’s the office's word against mine, which I know his stands for more. So are they trying to charge me with more than I was doing hoping that I won’t question it? I'm thinking in the Mitigating Circumstances that I need to admit to breaking the 50mph speed limit but not admit to doing 70-75 and say something like 'I am not sure of my exact speed as I was taking into account of the surrounds at the time but I am lead to believe it was around 65'.

Or is that not advised? Shall I just admit to it all? As I could be making the situation worse.

Cheers for any input.
Jack Bauer
ah thanks for the move, sorry forgot to put it all into one thread smile.gif
andy_foster
The DSW/1 and DSW/2 are the exhibit numbers (DSW being the occifer's initials, and the /numbers being the sequential numbers of his exhibits).

If the exhibits are not disclosed with the statement (or information provided as to how/where/when the exhibits can be examined), the statement is not admissible - although that does not prevent the occifer giving evidence under oath if he is at the court.

The ACPO guidelines suggest a fixed penalty for up to 75 in a 50 limit - so, absent any aggravating factors (on an empty road at 1 am), it seems unfair that you were not issued/offered one.

If you are minded to plead guilty, I would suggest pointing this out and respectfully inviting the court to consider applying the equivalent of the fixed penalty that was not issued/offered to you, in your mitigation.
Jack Bauer
Ok, thanks for that. So do you think that I shouldnt mention how late it was and that it not a pedestrianised road?
Northern
QUOTE
Ok, thanks for that. So do you think that I shouldnt mention how late it was and that it not a pedestrianised road?


Not relevent!
Jack Bauer
Is it advised to fill the Mitigating Circumstances out? As i know I was in the wrong and dont really have anything to put in my defence.
JPM1
Did the officers say things like ' I am reporting you for the question to be considered of prosecuting you for....' and then caution you at some point?

DSW/2 on the DVD is the provida evidence. You are entitled to see this, you should have been shown it at the time for good measure. Interestingly Provida records everything in the car as well, so it will have your conversation with the officers recorded. If there have been proceedural errors they will be on here!! Double edged sword this recording stuff!

Before you plead to anything talk to a traffic lawyer. This area of law is a minefield and it is easy for officer to become lax.
Jack Bauer
QUOTE (JPM1 @ Thu, 5 Feb 2009 - 20:46) *
Did the officers say things like ' I am reporting you for the question to be considered of prosecuting you for....' and then caution you at some point?


I dont think he said that, but it was so long ago now i cant remember precisely.

Yeah that is also a problem, saying something in my defence but there being something else on video. Wasn't shown it at the time.

How expensive is a traffic lawyer going to be? Im a student and cant afford much more than my daily outgoings.

As I was in the wrong i am inclined to say nothing to in my defence, or is this a bad move that could get teh book thrown at me so to speak?
ford poplar
If OP wasn't cautioned and told he would be reported for consideration, doesn't the 14 day limit for summons (NIP) apply?
JPM1
It should do yes, however in practice it will depend on what the officers have in their notes. It may be that upon examination they haven't written this in which case an NIP should have gone out immediately ( a lot of forces do it as a matter of course to stop just this type of situation)
Jack Bauer
any other input on this?
ford poplar
Check Officer's notes to see if he recorded that you were Cautioned and/or told you would be reported for stated offence at the time you were in back of unmarked Police car.
If not recorded, then NIP or Summons should have been received within 14 days, otherwise invalid IMO
See a Motoring Solicitor to check.
Jack Bauer
Just checked the notes and yes i did get a caution and was reported for the stated offence
Jack Bauer
Hi again. OK I got a letter through from the Magistrates. I pleaded guilty by post in the end. Anyway the letter is a 'notice of fine'. I got a total of £140 to pay. £65 fine, £15 cost and another £60 cost.

But there is no mention of points on here, there is a small hand written note on the bottom saying 'Your Driving Licence has been returned to the DVLA for change of address'. For some reason they want my student address on the licence it seems. But thats no bother. Just wondering why I havent recieved anything about points?

Anyone got any input on this?
nemo
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Wed, 1 Apr 2009 - 09:15) *
I got a total of £140 to pay. £65 fine, £15 cost and another £60 cost.

The £15 is the mandatory Victim Support Tax Surcharge.

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Wed, 1 Apr 2009 - 09:15) *
Anyone got any input on this?

I'll wager your licence will be returned will the addition of penalty points - the magistrates' guidelines suggest 4 to 6.
Jack Bauer
It it what im fearing however why tell me about the change of address, would I not expect to be told about points too?

Also does anybody know how long it takes to get your licence back from the DVLA for change of address?
nemo
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Wed, 1 Apr 2009 - 21:33) *
Also does anybody know how long it takes to get your licence back from the DVLA for change of address?

I think the DVLA aims to return licences within 21 days.
Jack Bauer
Woo, just over another week to wait and see if there are points...

Ive just been thinking, I would not recieved the fine if I had not been given points would I?

sad.gif
nemo
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Wed, 1 Apr 2009 - 22:09) *
Ive just been thinking, I would not recieved the fine if I had not been given points would I?

Not necessarily.

Not that it will apply to your case, but there are circumstances whereby conviction for an ordinarily endorseable offence does not result in the offender's licence being endorsed. Typically, this is when the magistrates, whilst convicting the offender, find that special reasons exist for not ordering endorsement.
Jack Bauer
Most probably no right?

Had a court summons for which i pleaded guilty by post, so sent my drivers licence off before the summons. The summons was over a month ago and on the 19th of march I was told by post that my licence had been sent to the DVLA to have my address changed to my uni address (which is stupid as Im only here for 6 months a year and move out for good next month back to the address on my licence). Anyway it also told me I had a fine to pay, which I have.

Ive been busy with uni work recently and havent had time to give this a second thought until today, phoned DVLA and they know nothing at all about it. Tomorrow I will phone the court to find out what I can.

So I just wanted to know, from issue of the penalty, is there a time limit on how long they take to add points to your licence?

Thanks guys.
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