Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Totting Up - A possible Ban?
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
photokingster
Hi,
I have just received a NIP stating I was doing 39mph in a 30mph, restricted road.

I am very worried that as I have 9 points all within 3 years, 1st one was May 2006. that I will have to attend court and could get a ban under the totting up rule. I was driving the vehicle at the time.

I have a few question that hopefully you v kind and informative peeps can assist with

1. If I want to fight the case, is is advisable to send the NIP back within 28 days? or I have heard that I could send it back, unsigned with a covering letter. Can I request photos and other information now or when I get the court date?
2. How long does it usually take for a summons to come through? - Hampshire County Council (Winchester).
3. What are the chances of defending myself succesfully? smile.gif Do I need a solicitor?
4. Has anyone pleeded the exeptional hardship rule in court and got off?
For example I drive an 80 mile trip to work each day from Poole in Dorset. The car I drive is essential for work, as it is an estate and carries client orders to remote parts of Hampshire, where public transprt cannot reach. Without the use of a car, my business would be in great jeopardy as well as the jobs of 14 staff.

Sorry so many questions, Please help.

I cannot find how to link in the NIP wizard to this post.
Hotel Oscar 87
Hi photokingster

Remote parts of Hampshire? Distant, yes but remote? Anyway, as a first move it would be very useful if you would complete the NIP wizard (link at top of page) and post your output back at which point we can start to get to grips with your situation.
photokingster
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2008
Date of the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - B3420, Andover Road. Winchester. Hampshire
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 9
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was driving to pick up a work colleague and was running slightly late, was not aware of any camera, either static or mobile on the road in question.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:33:22 +0100
southpaw82
QUOTE (photokingster @ Thu, 9 Oct 2008 - 22:20) *
1. If I want to fight the case, is is advisable to send the NIP back within 28 days? or I have heard that I could send it back, unsigned with a covering letter. Can I request photos and other information now or when I get the court date?


Doing that will get you 6 points.

QUOTE
2. How long does it usually take for a summons to come through? - Hampshire County Council (Winchester).


What does the council have to do with it?

QUOTE
4. Has anyone pleeded the exeptional hardship rule in court and got off?


Not "got off" but they have avoided a ban.
photokingster
Thanks for the quick response.

So you suggest sending the NIP through asap or waiting until the 28 days is nearly up? Is there any evidence gathering I can do before sending the NIP back, which would help my case.

After reading the forums, it seems that a summons takes about 6 months to come through.

Do you think my exeptional hardship story will suffice?

Thanks
southpaw82
Send it (recorded) near to the end of the 28 days. Why, exactly, is your car essential? Can't the orders be posted? Can't someone else do it? Courier firm?
Hotel Oscar 87
QUOTE (photokingster @ Thu, 9 Oct 2008 - 22:44) *
So you suggest sending the NIP through asap or waiting until the 28 days is nearly up? Is there any evidence gathering I can do before sending the NIP back, which would help my case.

Until such time as proceedings are issued (by way of a summons) you are entitled to nothing by way of evidence. The only evidence as such that you could obtain would be to write to the Hampshire Police (not the HCC) requesting "a photo or still that might assist me in identifying the driver at the time"; not elaborating further and specifically avoiding mention of the words "evidence" or "proof". This is likely to elicit a photo which in turn may reflect on the quality of the "ping" although increasingly the police are getting wise to this and stills that are provided for identification purposes are either cropped of the electonic print-out detail or are not of the "ping" itself. You may not have time to deal with this before the end of the 28-day period and as you are neither querying the alleged speed nor the fact that you were driving this seems a potentially dangerous waste of effort if it was to overrun the Sec. 172 cut-off. I'd suggest that you busy yourself in preparing a good case for the court.

QUOTE (photokingster @ Thu, 9 Oct 2008 - 22:44) *
After reading the forums, it seems that a summons takes about 6 months to come through.

Not true and on occasions this may only take weeks to arrive. You may have misunderstood reference to the 6 month limit by which time proceedings have to be commenced by the "laying of an information" in others words the making of an application for a summons.

QUOTE (photokingster @ Thu, 9 Oct 2008 - 22:44) *
Do you think my exeptional hardship story will suffice?

If you intend to plead exceptional hardship then any reference to the inconvenience or hardship it may cause you should be avoided. The whole intention of a ban is to cause you inconvenience that is why it is used as a punishment. Instead you should refer to the potential damage it will cause your business with specific reference to the loss of jobs. You will need to provide some evidence of this e.g. the impact your inability to personally attend customer's premises will have on the maintenance of contracts etc. You might find that reference to the impact your being banned (for an excessive period) may have on your family/parents/children etc may be considered more favourably if it is true, of course.

I have knowledge of a recent case, much like yours, where the usually automatic 6-month disqualification was avoided but the reason why the ban was not imposed was also the reason for the defendant being caught speeding (and was documented before the court - basically a serious illness in the family). Your failure to pay attention may therefore weigh more heavily against you.

Whether you attend with a solicitor is a matter entirely for you. I would always recommend personal attendance (as opposed to pleading guilty by letter) but that will not be an option open to you because you are "totting" and the bench will want you in front of them.


This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.