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petealan
I have received a notification from my local court that a PPC has obtained a CCJ on me.

I did receive the claim form and submit a defence, they then sent me an allocation questionaire thing which I returned.

Then I understand a hearing took place and as I didnt attend (as in the defence I said I disputed the debt) ... they got judgement on me.

I honestly cannot remember if I received the letter from the court with the hearing date on .. or if I forgot (lots been going on in my life)

I have looked at various threads about setting judgement aside but they all seem to refer to default judgements ... not ones that have had a hearing which 1 party failed to turn up.

The original claim was only for £135 .. but the CCJ is for almost £400 (as they claimed travel expenses, interest and the loss of earnings for a witness).

Do you think I can apply for it to be set aside (I cant appeal as I am outside the 14-days) ?

If I set aside, I presume they would still be able to argue the other costs and the claim amount in dispite would be the £135 only ?

Any help and assistance would be appreciated

Pete

dave-o
You really need to find out whether yuo received that hearing date letter. Could you really forget receiving it?
Alexis
What's the company?
petealan
I dont think I did to be honest .. well thats what I will be saying to the court.
The claimant also states they sent the evidence bundle to me, which I definately did not receive - but they have got a proof of postage and it does show it was sent to me and the court.

So in essence I will be saying to the court that 2 letters were not received.
Glacier2
Who is the PPC. We need this info in order to advise you best.
petealan
The company is CPS
bama
lets see ALL the paperwork you have - suitably scrubbed of your personal details.
How to post pics http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autoco...ticle&id=16

tinypic is best IMV
petealan
The paperwork I have is the claim form, a copy of my defence and the order from the court stating

That on hearing a representative of the claimant and the defendant not appearing the defendant must pay:

£135.00 Claim
£12.86 interest
£50.00 Court Costs
£135.45 Travelling Costs
£50.00 Loss of Earning
£8.20 Parking Fees

Total payable £391.51 before 3rd September 2008.
Order Dated 13th August 2008.


So as this was not a default judgement, I will say that I didnt receive the court date and that I didnt receive the paperwork .. can I apply for it to be setaside or as it was a full hearing so I need to lodge an appeal, which looking at the court website I cant as its ouside 14-days.

I will have to prove (somehow) I didnt get 2 lots of mail - One with the court date and one with the evidence bundle sent by the parking company (they have proof of postage and have sent it to me .. all stamped and signed by the postoffice as they also sent to court).

I have called court and they confirm receiving it 2 days later, so all the dates tally.


So I suppose its a legal question .. can I set aside or not ... Do I just put down to experience as it will cost me £75.00 to apply and I dont want to throw good money after bad ..
Even if I do get it set aside, I presume it will only be the £135 and not the larger amounts of the travel/loss of earnings etc...

Thanks for any help.
dave-o
QUOTE (petealan @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 13:17) *
I will have to prove (somehow) I didnt get 2 lots of mail -



You don't have to prove it. You just have to sign a statement in front of a court clerk that you didn't recieve either document. It's called a Statutory Declaration. If this is true then no worries. If it's not true then it's quite a serious offence.
petealan
Will I still get hammered for the other costs even if the judgement is set aside ??
What if they object to it being set aside.

I only sent 1 letter to them, following advice on a forum saying "take it up with the driver, I deny any debt" and in my defence stated they have ot sent me any evidence that I was the driver.

The court would not tell me what they had received, they just stated it was the claimants evidence pack .. The judge must have looked through it and considered enough evidence there for the charge to be good....

I maybe should have dealt with this in a different way and now have a £400 bill + £75 more if I want to fight it (the original ticket was only about £60)

What about if the court allows me to set aside .. another hearing is set and I lose ... could this be double costs (the clerk at the court said it probarly would but did say its upto the judge) !!
Alexis
Ah, CPS. They seem to be the only company likely to take a punt in court. One of us is going have to get one of their invoices and wipe the floor with the b*stards in court.

I was under the impression that the stat declaration 'turned the clock back' and you start again from scratch with a new date.


dave-o
QUOTE (petealan @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 13:42) *
The judge must have looked through it and considered enough evidence there for the charge to be good....



No, if you don't turn up then the "judge" will always rule in the favour of the person who did turn up.
petealan
I have been doing some searching and I think this is a different CPS.
I have found 4 parking companies that use CPS in their logo, The CPS I think you are on about is in Wolverhampton the one I got a ticket from are based in Bridgwater but their main office is in London (Park Stoppers Limited).
I can confirm also that it is definately not UKCPS
See, all these CPS based companies no wonder people get confused.
bama
addresses used by ppcs don't mean that much. lets see the paperwork.
petealan
The claim form states:

PARK STOPPERS LIMITED
T/A CpS Enforcement
2nd Floor
145-157 St John Street
London
United Kingdom
EC1V 4PY


I have looked at they are listed as company No. 06538363

ianagarrison
Scan the paperwork, or take a nice dital photo of it- then host it via an online pic site!
MartinHP71
Petealan are you able to scan the documents you have actually recieved. You keep on typing what it says but theres nothing better than to actually see the paper itself .. do you have access to a scanner to do this.
dave-o
QUOTE (MartinHP71 @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 14:24) *
do you have access to a scanner to do this.



...or a digital camera.
andy_foster
Apparently, 'Westco Nominees Limited' is the Company Secretary of Park Stoppers Limited, and 'Westco Directors' is the Director.

Grant Beeming, Howard Graham, Brian Graham, Keith Graham, Adrian Koe, Oscar Montes de Oca and Philip Klinger are directors of Westco Nominees Ltd. and Westco Directors Ltd. None of the names ring any bells with me.

Google (or more precisely Pistonheads) indicates that Westco were also directors of Highview Parking Ltd. N.B Apparently they resigned as directors on 18/10/2007.

MSE provides a bit more information about Westco and one of their other crooked clients.

And here

Essentially, it seems that they are a front behind which real directors who might want to remain anonymous (read crooks) can operate.

[edit: They also run http://www.companiesmadesimple.com ]
bama
Nice spadework AF. Thanks.
glasgow_bhoy
Noticed this on -CAG as well-- only 2 -replies though so this is clearly the better forum tongue.gif


Sorry if Im insulting you -here but are u anything to do with a PPC- the lack of scanned paperwork etc. makes me suspicious.
petealan
Glasgow, you are not insulting you have every right to ask.
I am not connected to them in any way other than I owe one of them £400.

I have posted all the relevant information on the circumstances and amounts, I dont see how posting the original documents would show up anything else.

My question was a legal one, regardl;ess of the documents involved and not an opinion as to wether I have a case, I know I have a case as I wasnt even in the country when the PPC issued the ticket and can prove that by my flight tickets and hotel/credit card bills.

buttonpusher
I suggest that it would help others to help you if you DO post the items requested. Every help getting this overturned or whatever will be given but you must also do your bit.
Teufel
check the paperwork very carefully

dodgy claimants ofetn put slight errors in address whihc ensure you prob
dont get the mail but small enough to be slips in court
sarahg1969
So, this company has only nominee director and secretary?

Should they be trading then, if there are no named directors?

ETA: - no problem. I was thinking of another matter I was looking at the other day where there were NO directors - they shouldn't have been trading.
southpaw82
There's nothing to stop you asking for an out of time appeal if you have only just received the paperwork. That should be sufficient reason for a circuit judge to allow you to appeal to his court.
rambo
Does this mean we have to pay private parking tickets?
The Rookie
NO, read the thread and PPC sticky properly........

Simon
emanresu
QUOTE
I have posted all the relevant information on the circumstances and amounts, I dont see how posting the original documents would show up anything else


I've seen this excuse somewhere else on these threads. The last poster with this problem couldn't post the paperwork either!!

Now if it looks like a duck etc..
nimh999
QUOTE (petealan @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 09:57) *
I have received a notification from my local court that a PPC has obtained a CCJ on me.

Show us the paperwork

QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 10:12) *
We need this info in order to advise you best.

Show us the paperwork

QUOTE (bama @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 11:28) *
lets see ALL the paperwork

Show us the paperwork

QUOTE (bama @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 14:08) *
lets see the paperwork.

Show us the paperwork

QUOTE (ianagarrison @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 14:22) *
Scan the paperwork,

Show us the paperwork

QUOTE (MartinHP71 @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 14:24) *
theres nothing better than to actually see the paper itself

Show us the paperwork

QUOTE (dave-o @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (MartinHP71 @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 14:24) *
do you have access to a scanner to do this.


Show us the paperwork

QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 21:18) *
the lack of scanned paperwork etc. makes me suspicious.

Show us the paperwork

QUOTE (petealan @ Thu, 9 Oct 2008 - 12:01) *
I have posted all the relevant information on the circumstances and amounts, I dont see how posting the original documents would show up anything else.

Show us the paperwork

QUOTE (buttonpusher @ Thu, 9 Oct 2008 - 12:19) *
I've seen this excuse somewhere else on these threads. The last poster with this problem couldn't post the paperwork either!!

Now if it looks like a duck etc..

Show us the paperwork
buttonpusher
Psst:
QUOTE (buttonpusher @ Thu, 9 Oct 2008 - 12:19) *
I've seen this excuse somewhere else on these threads. The last poster with this problem couldn't post the paperwork either!!

Now if it looks like a duck etc..
I don't wish to take credit for someone else's post biggrin.gif
andy_foster
Guys,

The point has been made that PPCs have been known to post bogus and unsubstantiated cases in order to give the impression that their 'fines' are legally enforceable. It has then been re-stated repeatedly, to the extent that the OP has effectively been accused of being a PPC plant, despite there being no apparent evidence to support this.

This is a forum intended to help motorists exercise their rights and 'fightback', not for the characters that inspired 'Deliverance' to run a kangaroo court.
Who wants to be the first to be banned today?
emanresu
"If I was to suggest the OP would I get banned?"

I'll retract that statement as I understand it is very difficult to answer questions without paperwork being available.

But on a serious note, I have made a number of posts about PPC's having CCJ's against them and none of these CCJ's being paid by these characters - so it would seem that there is one law for them etc..
petealan
I did not ask advice on if the ticket/fine or whatever is enforceable nor have I ever tried to state they are.

For whatever reason a ticket was attached to my vehicle and as a result they tried to take me to court ... again, for whatever reason I didnt attend the hearing (my own fault or not getting the paperwork - I honestly do not know)

A judgement was given without me putting in a defence .. The paperwork is of no value and as this is 'ongoing' then I want to play this my way.

A judgement given without a defence could have been for anything, I could say the next door neighbour agreed to pay me £10,000 if he doesnt reply then I will get a judgement ... does not mean the debt is legal so for the posters who are trying to say I am a PPC plant or whatever the term is then if thats what you think then feel free.

Thanks to those who have given advice on the judgement being set aside post hearing. (I must admit that the later posts in this thread let the whole community down)
dave-o
Pete, i'm sure you can appreciate that we do get stool pidgeons from PPCs here, an that without any documents posted it's difficult to know who's genuine.

Anyway, the bottom line is people here will help you to get justice if you follow procedure and keep us updated.
gonefishing
QUOTE (petealan @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 08:57) *
I did receive the claim form and submit a defence
<br /><br /><br />

QUOTE (petealan @ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 - 10:30) *
A judgement was given without me putting in a defence


Petealan I for one am prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt but this is a fairly glaring discrepancy. If you are more forthcoming about the case no doubt others will be more forthcoming with advice.
Cargy
QUOTE (petealan @ Wed, 8 Oct 2008 - 09:57) *
I honestly cannot remember if I received the letter from the court with the hearing date on .. or if I forgot (lots been going on in my life)

I have looked at various threads about setting judgement aside but they all seem to refer to default judgements ... not ones that have had a hearing which 1 party failed to turn up.



Forgive my ignorance and I stand to be corrected, but isn't the latter pretty much the definition of a default judgement?
whitewing
If a defendent doesn't show up, presumably a case could still be found in their favour based on the facts presented by the plaintiff, or do they not bother to look at evidence at all in these cases ?
southpaw82
QUOTE (rambo @ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 - 04:37) *
Does this mean we have to pay private parking tickets?


I knew this would come up. No, it does not. The PPC here won simply because the defendant did not turn up in court (for whatever reason). They didn't win for any other reason.

This is in accordance with Part 27 (Small Claims) of the Civil Procedure Rules, Para 27.9(3):

If –(a) a defendant does not –

(i) attend the hearing; or

(ii) give the notice referred to in paragraph (1); and

(b) the claimant either –

(i) does attend the hearing; or

(ii) gives the notice referred to in paragraph (1),

the court may decide the claim on the basis of the evidence of the claimant alone


This can be remedied by making an application under Para 27.11(1) but must be done within 14 days after the day on which notice of the judgment was served on him.

richard52
£135.00 Claim
£12.86 interest
£50.00 Court Costs
£135.45 Travelling Costs
£50.00 Loss of Earning
£8.20 Parking Fees

Total payable £391.51 before 3rd September 2008.
Order Dated 13th August 2008.



Im no legal expert. There are 2 things I dont understand here

1. How are there are travelling expenses of £135 unless the op had asked for the case to be moved to his local court.

2.The order says it must be paid by 3rd Sept yet he doesnt post on here for over a month.Or would a ccj be issued later.
whitewing
Can loss of earnings be awarded in small claims?
southpaw82
Yes, capped at £50 IIRC. It's all in Part 27 and 44 of the CPR.
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