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xray
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2008
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - B5378 Allum Lane Borehamwood East of Blattner Close East towards Borehamwood
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 9
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 10:25:21 +0100

Two queries - wonder if anyone can help...

Firstly, at the time of the alleged offence last weekend I had nine points on my licence, but by the time I return my NIP, three of those points will no longer be valid (they were for an offence on 22/10/05). Does anyone know if I will receive a conditional offer... and if I can accept it?

Secondly, the alleged offence was in Hertfordhsire - 38mph on a 30mph road. Looking at their site I seem to be eligible for a speed awareness course - does anyone know if that is offered automatically by this force?

Thanks
nemo
QUOTE (xray @ Sat, 4 Oct 2008 - 10:25) *
Two queries - wonder if anyone can help...

Firstly, at the time of the alleged offence last weekend I had nine points on my licence, but by the time I return my NIP, three of those points will no longer be valid (they were for an offence on 22/10/05).

Unfortunately, its the offence date which will be used for totting purposes, not the date of conviction (or acceptance of a Fixed Penalty).

QUOTE (xray @ Sat, 4 Oct 2008 - 10:25) *
Does anyone know if I will receive a conditional offer... and if I can accept it?

A CoFP cannot be accepted if the offender has more than 8 penalty points.

QUOTE (xray @ Sat, 4 Oct 2008 - 10:25) *
Secondly, the alleged offence was in Hertfordhsire - 38mph on a 30mph road. Looking at their site I seem to be eligible for a speed awareness course - does anyone know if that is offered automatically by this force?

You might be better off phoning Herts' SCP and asking (anonymously, of course).

Either way, whilst SACs are stated as being by invitation only, I am aware of a couple of cases where offenders who were not initially offered SACs phoned, asked why a course had not been offered and, miraculously, they were then invited to attend.


xray
Thanks. I was just wondering as looking on a previous offer, it simply states 'if your licence has been endorsed with 9 points or more within the last three years' - no mention of dates of offence... and by the time I actually get the offer, it won't have been endorsed with 9 points or more within the last three years, so surely not doing anything wrong in accepting offer it if it comes.
nemo
QUOTE (xray @ Sat, 4 Oct 2008 - 10:50) *
I was just wondering as looking on a previous offer, it simply states 'if your licence has been endorsed with 9 points or more within the last three years' - no mention of dates of offence...and by the time I actually get the offer, it won't have been endorsed with 9 points or more within the last three years,

Sorry, but your wonderings are not correct. It is the date of offence which will be taken into consideration with regard to points and totting.

QUOTE (Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988)
29. Penalty points to be taken into account on conviction. —

(1) Where a person is convicted of an offence involving obligatory endorsement, the penalty points to be taken into account on that occasion are (subject to subsection (2) below)—

(a ) any that are to be attributed to the offence or offences of which he is convicted disregarding any offence in respect of which an order under section 34 of this Act is made, and

(b ) any that were on a previous occasion ordered to be endorsed on the counterpart of any licence held by him, unless the offender has since that occasion and before the conviction been disqualified under section 35 of this Act.

(2) If any of the offences was committed more than three years before another, the penalty points in respect of that offence shall not be added to those in respect of the other.

xray
Thanks... does that mean I'll be automatically sent a court summons on return of my NIP?
nemo
QUOTE (xray @ Sat, 4 Oct 2008 - 11:26) *
Thanks... does that mean I'll be automatically sent a court summons on return of my NIP?

If you are not offered a speed awareness course (which would have zero points), then your 9 current penalty points would preclude your acceptance of a CoFP. Accordingly, with 12 penalty points pending, you should ultimately expect to receive a summons to attend court.
Hotel Oscar 87
Further to nemo's comments, given the alleged speed I think an offer of a SAC is reasonably likely but as the conditions for acceptance on a course viz. points and previous attendance differ slightly from county to county you will need to read the documentation that comes with it carefully. If you receive a COFP you will find that it contains a condition about it being necessary that you have less than 9 points and this is what will exclude you from the process. I'm afraid that a court appearance is the most likely final outcome.
davepoth
While not wishing to suggest the OP should commit an offence, chucking the NIP in the bin and taking 6 points for the S.172 might keep them driving if the dates are suitable.
xray
Thanks for all your comments. The thing that confuses me is that by the time I return the NIP and subsequently get the CoFP, I will technically be down to six points - and CoFPs I've received previously don't mention having less than nine points at time of alleged offence, simply less than nine points, which is what I will have when I receive it.

Either way, here's hoping for speed awareness offer.
nemo
QUOTE (davepoth @ Sat, 4 Oct 2008 - 13:46) *
While not wishing to suggest the OP should commit an offence, chucking the NIP in the bin and taking 6 points for the S.172 might keep them driving if the dates are suitable.

Only if the OP stands to lose 3 more points (in addition to those which will expire on 21.10.2008) before his 28 days are up.
Hotel Oscar 87
QUOTE (xray @ Sat, 4 Oct 2008 - 15:45) *
Thanks for all your comments. The thing that confuses me is that by the time I return the NIP and subsequently get the CoFP, I will technically be down to six points - and CoFPs I've received previously don't mention having less than nine points at time of alleged offence, simply less than nine points, which is what I will have when I receive it.

Either way, here's hoping for speed awareness offer.


The points will still appear on your licence (and will do for another year before you can apply for them to be removed) and will still show on the DVLA record.
davepoth
QUOTE (nemo @ Sat, 4 Oct 2008 - 16:06) *
QUOTE (davepoth @ Sat, 4 Oct 2008 - 13:46) *
While not wishing to suggest the OP should commit an offence, chucking the NIP in the bin and taking 6 points for the S.172 might keep them driving if the dates are suitable.

Only if the OP stands to lose 3 more points (in addition to those which will expire on 21.10.2008) before his 28 days are up.



Sorry Nemo, I misread the OP's post. Definitely don't do what I said, it would be silly.
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