Hi Guys,
Not sure if this is the right Forums, however I need a bit of information/help.
I got a Fixed Penalty for driving in a Bus Lane; I have fought it as much as I can however I am being shafted for the fine.
I am aware there was a programme on TV that was discussing the issuing of parking tickets and tickets for driving in a bus lane.
There was an expert on the show stating that large numbers of Bus Lanes do not meet the appropriate Road Traffic Act, on the setting out of the Bus Lanes and therefore they are illegal?
Can some of the experts on the forum post a link to the show of provide information on the technical lay out of a Bus Lane e. g. Road Makings, Signs and any other relevant information.
Full Version: A bus lane or not?
QUOTE (Ranger1640 @ Thu, 22 Nov 2007 - 10:03) 
Can some of the experts on the forum post a link to the show..
I assume you mean Dispatches: Bottleneck Britain ?
You can get this free on 4oD for 30 days after it was first broadcast (12.11.2007)..
Bus lanes are under similar legislation to parking, which is shy you'll get the best advice in the parking forum, have a scan or photo for BOTH sides of the NIP linked to (you have to use an extrenal host like imageshack -see the FAQ's) for quick advice.
Simon
Simon
Just to give you the latest up date on the dispute I had with the PSNI, I have been given my £30 back and had the fixed penalty revoked by the Courts Service NI.
After I requested a review of the evidence that I had sent to the PSNI, so with an Ulsterman’s determination I won in the end. Pity it took them over a year to get there act together.
A victory for the common man!
ranger1640 wrote: Below is a letter is sent to the PSNI after being issued with a fixed penalty for allegedly driving 77m in a bus lane.
17th May 2007
Dear Sirs,
On Friday 11th May 2007 at 1640 hrs approx, I was issued with a fixed penalty fine for driving in a bus lane during the operating times of the bus lane.
Fix Penalty Serial Number Vehicle registration
I would like to request that the issuing of this fixed penalty is reviewed before the 21 days of the fixed penalty has expired. I feel there are circumstances that the PSNI officer did not take into consideration before issuing the fixed penalty.
The incident took place on the Antrim Road Belfast. The location of the bus lane is a 77m stretch between Strathmore Park and Innisfayle Park Belfast.
A PSNI officer from the Urban Traffic Unit issued the fixed penalty. At the time of the issuing of the fixed penalty the first two bus lane signs indicating the times for the bus lane were not at right angles to the road, therefore making it difficult to observe the signs and furthermore making it difficult to read the information on the signs.
The first sign located 31m before the bus lane and was turned through nearly 90 degrees outward facing the road. Making it difficult to observe and therefore difficult to read any information contained on the sign. The second sign was turned through a full 90 degrees inward facing the footpath, making it impossible to know what type of sign it was and impossible to read any of the information on the sign.
It was not until you passed the second sign and you entered the bus lane that there was BUS LANE written on the road. Therefore, if you could not see the sign or read the information on the first two signs, it would not have been until the third sign that you would have known the bus lane times.
The first two signs are sited 140m and 171m respectively from the North Circular Road, Antrim Road junction. The third sign is 275m from the same junction and 135m from the first sign. Only 77m is bus lane from the second sign at Strathmore Park to before the third sign at Innisfayle Park with a break of 28m for a left turn into Innisfayle Park.
(Please refer to the photos enclosed and line diagram)
When I observed the third bus lane sign, which was in the correct position at a right angle to the road facing the on coming traffic. I noted that I was in the bus lane during the bus lane operation and I immediately moved out into the outside lane.
It was a further 150m beyond the third sign when I had halted at the traffic lights at the Waterloo Park, Donegall Park Avenue and Antrim Road junction that the PSNI officer stopped me in the outside lane. He then signalled for me to go back into the near side lane and issued the fixed penalty, thus blocking the bus lane.
At this point, the officer questioned me and asked if I had seen the signs on entering the bus lane. I said I had not seen the signs or the times on entering the bus lane. It was only at the properly positioned sign approximately 150m behind the point that I was pulled over that I had observed and noted that I was in the bus lane during the quarantine period and hence my manoeuvre into the outside lane.
When I explained to the officer that when I did observe the sign and the times I immediately moved out into the outside lane out of the bus lane, the officer insisted that I should have seen the first two signs.
The officer replied I should have seen the signs with the times of the bus lane as they are sited at the entrance to this bus lane. However, the officer did not take me back to show me these signs at the entrance to the bus lane. The officer then asked, if I was a regular user of the road and did I know the times of the bus lane to which I replied no.
After issuing the fixed penalty, the officer ‘cautioned’ me and informed me that I had 21 days to pay the fixed penalty.
On my return journey home, I noted that the signs were not at right angles to the road and on coming traffic, therefore they are difficult if not imposable to see or read any information contained on the sign. I returned and took photographs of the signs as evidence against the issuing of the fixed penalty. (Please refer to the photos enclosed)
I feel that I cannot be held responsible if street furniture is not positioned correctly at right angles to the oncoming traffic giving the road user a chance to firstly observe the sign, read the information contained on the sign and make any necessary manoeuvre to comply with the sign.
In closing, I would like to say if the PSNI officer from the Urban Traffic Unit had been as observant as he was efficient at handing out the fixed penalty. He would have observed that the first two bus lane signs were not at right angles to the oncoming traffic and therefore difficult to see and read any information contained thereon, and not have assumed that I had purposely drove past the first two bus lane signs, thus breaking the bus lane quarantine!
My understanding for the purpose of these signs is to inform the oncoming driver of the times of the bus lane quarantine. I cannot be expected to know all the times of every bus lane quarantine, hence the need for signs. These signs have firstly to be seen and the information contained on these signs has to be observed to be acted on, this while concentrating on the road ahead, road conditions, other road users and while watching your speed to keep within the legal speed limit for the road and not be a danger to yourself or other road users.
If these signs are not positioned correctly at right angles to the road facing the oncoming traffic it is impossible for any driver to do all of the actions required above and to keep themselves and other road users safe.
If road users are expected to do all of the actions mentioned above and to watch out for inappropriate signage then road carnage will be the only outcome!
The photos enclosed were taken on Saturday 12th May 2007 as were the dimensions as to the siting of the street furniture and the total distance of the incident.
Since this incident I have received legal advice, quoting the above, and have been recommended to proceed in the manner I am. Under the circumstances and the evidence I have shown I would consider it only just to have this ‘fixed penalty’ ticket revoked.
Should you need to contact me other than by mail my mobile number is.
I look forward with anticipation to your early comments in respect of the above.
Yours sincerely
enc.
Below you will find the anal replay from the PSNI and pics of the signs
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9717614@N02/?saved=1
After I requested a review of the evidence that I had sent to the PSNI, so with an Ulsterman’s determination I won in the end. Pity it took them over a year to get there act together.
A victory for the common man!
ranger1640 wrote: Below is a letter is sent to the PSNI after being issued with a fixed penalty for allegedly driving 77m in a bus lane.
17th May 2007
Dear Sirs,
On Friday 11th May 2007 at 1640 hrs approx, I was issued with a fixed penalty fine for driving in a bus lane during the operating times of the bus lane.
Fix Penalty Serial Number Vehicle registration
I would like to request that the issuing of this fixed penalty is reviewed before the 21 days of the fixed penalty has expired. I feel there are circumstances that the PSNI officer did not take into consideration before issuing the fixed penalty.
The incident took place on the Antrim Road Belfast. The location of the bus lane is a 77m stretch between Strathmore Park and Innisfayle Park Belfast.
A PSNI officer from the Urban Traffic Unit issued the fixed penalty. At the time of the issuing of the fixed penalty the first two bus lane signs indicating the times for the bus lane were not at right angles to the road, therefore making it difficult to observe the signs and furthermore making it difficult to read the information on the signs.
The first sign located 31m before the bus lane and was turned through nearly 90 degrees outward facing the road. Making it difficult to observe and therefore difficult to read any information contained on the sign. The second sign was turned through a full 90 degrees inward facing the footpath, making it impossible to know what type of sign it was and impossible to read any of the information on the sign.
It was not until you passed the second sign and you entered the bus lane that there was BUS LANE written on the road. Therefore, if you could not see the sign or read the information on the first two signs, it would not have been until the third sign that you would have known the bus lane times.
The first two signs are sited 140m and 171m respectively from the North Circular Road, Antrim Road junction. The third sign is 275m from the same junction and 135m from the first sign. Only 77m is bus lane from the second sign at Strathmore Park to before the third sign at Innisfayle Park with a break of 28m for a left turn into Innisfayle Park.
(Please refer to the photos enclosed and line diagram)
When I observed the third bus lane sign, which was in the correct position at a right angle to the road facing the on coming traffic. I noted that I was in the bus lane during the bus lane operation and I immediately moved out into the outside lane.
It was a further 150m beyond the third sign when I had halted at the traffic lights at the Waterloo Park, Donegall Park Avenue and Antrim Road junction that the PSNI officer stopped me in the outside lane. He then signalled for me to go back into the near side lane and issued the fixed penalty, thus blocking the bus lane.
At this point, the officer questioned me and asked if I had seen the signs on entering the bus lane. I said I had not seen the signs or the times on entering the bus lane. It was only at the properly positioned sign approximately 150m behind the point that I was pulled over that I had observed and noted that I was in the bus lane during the quarantine period and hence my manoeuvre into the outside lane.
When I explained to the officer that when I did observe the sign and the times I immediately moved out into the outside lane out of the bus lane, the officer insisted that I should have seen the first two signs.
The officer replied I should have seen the signs with the times of the bus lane as they are sited at the entrance to this bus lane. However, the officer did not take me back to show me these signs at the entrance to the bus lane. The officer then asked, if I was a regular user of the road and did I know the times of the bus lane to which I replied no.
After issuing the fixed penalty, the officer ‘cautioned’ me and informed me that I had 21 days to pay the fixed penalty.
On my return journey home, I noted that the signs were not at right angles to the road and on coming traffic, therefore they are difficult if not imposable to see or read any information contained on the sign. I returned and took photographs of the signs as evidence against the issuing of the fixed penalty. (Please refer to the photos enclosed)
I feel that I cannot be held responsible if street furniture is not positioned correctly at right angles to the oncoming traffic giving the road user a chance to firstly observe the sign, read the information contained on the sign and make any necessary manoeuvre to comply with the sign.
In closing, I would like to say if the PSNI officer from the Urban Traffic Unit had been as observant as he was efficient at handing out the fixed penalty. He would have observed that the first two bus lane signs were not at right angles to the oncoming traffic and therefore difficult to see and read any information contained thereon, and not have assumed that I had purposely drove past the first two bus lane signs, thus breaking the bus lane quarantine!
My understanding for the purpose of these signs is to inform the oncoming driver of the times of the bus lane quarantine. I cannot be expected to know all the times of every bus lane quarantine, hence the need for signs. These signs have firstly to be seen and the information contained on these signs has to be observed to be acted on, this while concentrating on the road ahead, road conditions, other road users and while watching your speed to keep within the legal speed limit for the road and not be a danger to yourself or other road users.
If these signs are not positioned correctly at right angles to the road facing the oncoming traffic it is impossible for any driver to do all of the actions required above and to keep themselves and other road users safe.
If road users are expected to do all of the actions mentioned above and to watch out for inappropriate signage then road carnage will be the only outcome!
The photos enclosed were taken on Saturday 12th May 2007 as were the dimensions as to the siting of the street furniture and the total distance of the incident.
Since this incident I have received legal advice, quoting the above, and have been recommended to proceed in the manner I am. Under the circumstances and the evidence I have shown I would consider it only just to have this ‘fixed penalty’ ticket revoked.
Should you need to contact me other than by mail my mobile number is.
I look forward with anticipation to your early comments in respect of the above.
Yours sincerely
enc.
Below you will find the anal replay from the PSNI and pics of the signs
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9717614@N02/?saved=1
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