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dchbrown
Hi All,

This is my first time on here so be gentle biggrin.gif

My reason for posting is that I found my car clamped this morning. I live in a Flat that has private parking for residents around it, as is always the case there isnt enough marked spaces for everyone so we part where we can trying not to block anything in the process. So when i came home last night from work there was no where left to park so i put the car onto a section of pavement between marked bays, I've used this space on and off since I moved here about 8 months ago and never had a problem with it.

So I was quite surprised this morning to find a clamp on my car! I immediately contacted the company involved, whom I assumed was Guardian Parking Management as they issue our parking permits but there was no introduction when the phone was answered so I dont know who exactly i spoke to! I needed the car and they wouldnt hear anything about me having not parked anywhere I shouldnt have so I provided my debit card details (dont have credit cards otherwise i would have used one) and after 30 odd minutes a van turned up and removed the clamp and handed me an invoice.

The man who released my car said he didnt know why I was clamped, and when he saw I had a valid visitors permit displayed said "I would appeal this if I was you mate". I told him that I intended to! He then went on to say that a reason for me being clamped hadnt been recorded, so wrote "Unauthorised Parking" on the invoice, he did venture that it might have been because I was on the pavement though. He did mention that the parking rules for our site had gotten changed recently and we would have been informed about it, I replied that we hadnt heard anything of the sort!

When i was down at my car having the clamp removed I noticed a post-it note on the windscreen from our Residents Association President saying "If you want to complain about being clamped please contact me". When I spoke to her she said that they had been working towards getting rid of Guardian Parking Management as there had been numerous complaints from other residents about being "unfairly" parked. All had been appealed but no one had gotten any money back, this was also the case in one incident that the flats management agents, who employ Guardian, had backed the resident against Guardian but still no refund. I dont think anyone has taken them to court or even threatened to.

The interesting part of this conversation was that she told me that Guardian had contacted our management agents saying that they were happy about the contract as they werent getting enough money from our site anymore as everyone was parking correctly. At a director level there was some discussion and the rules were changed, however the first I've heard of this was today and apparently im not alone as no one here has been informed of the changes yet. I do remember noticing that new signs had gone up around the place a few weeks ago but thought nothing more of it.

Ok, theres the background. Ive scanned all relevant documents and I also took photos of where the car was and signs etc.

My Thoughts then...

I did park on the pavement, however there signage states "No parking in Roadway areas. Any vehicle parked in roadway area will be clamped/towed away" so no mention of parking on pavements - i did nothing wrong here. The back of the Invoice says "Not complied with clear signage and parking regulations" the only other parking regulations are apparently in the Hand Book of Residents Rules, except there isnt anything in the handbook on parking, we do have a really small scrap of paper on a notice board that basically says you must be authorised to park here - so again no rules broken. The reason for clamping me on the invoice is "Unauthorised Parking" so is this what they are "accusing" me of? I am authorised as I had a valid and displayed permit - so again i didnt break this rule either. Can they add to this and say it was where I was parked as well? Or does the fact that their invoice state it mean that this is the only rule they can accuse me of breaking?

My question is this - where do i go from here? What should I do first?

I think i need to write a letter of appeal and see what happens from there or is there something else I could or should do?

Pictures/Documents:
(Sorry for the large size of some of them)

Location of Car (its the Black Astra):


Car with Clamp (please note small white smudge on dashboard underneath Tax Disc - this is my parking permit):


Close Up of Permit in Car:


Photo of Signs found in Car Park:



Invoice Front:



Invoice Back:
Glacier2
Gotta love the company name. Ethical indeed!

Their appeals procedure is a sham. All you will get back is a template refusal letter. Most likely a "Standard Form 41B Issue 1". So I wouldn't bother.

I would ask the Royal Mail for the real address behind the PO Box and send them and the management company a letter before action. Give them 7 days to refund you or you will sue them. If they don't pay up you can then issue county court proceedings to recover your money.

dchbrown
Sorry to come across like i need to be drip fed but what do I need to say in the letter I write?

This is to be sent to both Ethical and the Management Agents of the flats right?
dchbrown
OK done some digging RE the PO Box. The address comes out as the same as the parking management firm - Guardian Parking Management. So my guess would be there are multiple companies from the same place.

I guess checking with Companies house is an idea...

Name & Registered Office:
ETHICAL PARKING MANAGEMENT LTD.
GUARDIAN FACILITIES LIMITED
ARUNDEL ROAD
WORTHING
WEST SUSSEX
BN13 3EU
Company No. 05992210


Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 08/11/2006

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
9999 - Dormant Company
Accounting Reference Date: 30/11
Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)
Next Accounts Due: 08/09/2008
Last Return Made Up To: 08/11/2007
Next Return Due: 06/12/2008
Last Members List: 08/11/2007
Previous Names: Date of change Previous Name 27/03/2008 V M PARKING LTD 03/01/2007 GUARDIAN PARKING MANAGEMENT LIMITED 05/03/2008 ALLIED PARKING MANAGEMENT LIMITED
The companies dormant? How can they be "trading" as parking enforcement then? Weird...
DW190
It loks like Guardian is/was the same Company.

Look at the bottom as they used to be called Guardian Parking Management.
Pagey
rolleyes.gif
A Bit of Background for you:

Guardian - have been known as Guardian Facilities, Guardian Guards etc etc.
they also had (might still have) Guardian HiTech and Guardian Mobility

They are all one and the same!
Principally they are a Security Guarding Company, they moved into wheelclamping a few years ago. IIRC they started as Guardian Parking Management and they changed the name to Allied Parking Management to spite a former Operations manager/director of Guardian Security who left and set up his own Security Company called ..............
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yes you guessed right - Allied Security (a Security Guarding Company)

About 6 months to a year ago they changed a lot of the warning signs back to Guardian Parking management (they put a sticker over the main company logo) but clearly didn't notice that part way through the terms and conditions it still referred to Allied (idiots)

Guardian's base of operations is indeed in Arundel Road - Its the old Little Chef building, although I heard a couple of months back that Guardian Security/Facilities had been bought out by another company - I drove past a couple of weeks ago and I'm sure the vans etc still had the Guardian Logo on them.

I have not heard anything of 'Ethical Parking Management'........... although now I think about - I know where one of the Guardian Tow truck Drivers always used to park the truck (I think he took it home) and I drove past that way yesterday and there was a tow truck parked there with a different name on it - will have a nosey tomorrow or Monday.

V.M Parking Ltd - is another one i have not come across! Although If my memory serves me correctly - V.M are the initials of one the Directors of Guardian. IIRC - Val M...............? (can't remember the surname) another name I do remember from Guardian is Mark Lynch I'm not sure if he was a Director or Operations Manger.
whitewing
Doesn't the fact that the sign says 'contractual agreement' imply a contract, and hence a penalty charges, thus voiding any contract?
Forget appealing to them. First route is chargeback ( possible but more difficult on debit card), second is court action against the clampers AND the management co.

Also check terms of lease/freehold docs - mgt co may be in breach of contract.

One advantage that residents have is that they are always there, and wouldn't be too hard for them to go round and remove all those signs in the dead of nght....

MartinHP71
to the OP. I would revisit your pictures and remove the more personal details for example your registration plate and tie in to Tax disk number, and address and Oh yes your name.
southpaw82
And your picture reflected in the glass rolleyes.gif

The "contract" is laughable - any clamping is only for those "in breach of regulations". Hence, any clamping release fee is a penalty charge. Oops!

See if the bank will do a chargeback. If not, letter before action and then sue them.
dchbrown
I will speak to my bank first thing tomorrow morning.

Im not sure what difference it makes if its a penalty charge or not - can someone please explain this to me?
southpaw82
The law of England is that a penalty can not be imposed for breaching a contract. The only remedy is damages. Somehow, I don't think it cost them that much just because you parked where you did, do you?

Surely you haven't missed all the news abount bank penalty charges, have you?
dchbrown
No i caught the news about Bank Charges - in fact I wrote to my bank about it and basically got a polite f*** off from them but thats another matter...

OK so ive spoken to my bank and i might be able to do a Chargeback but the department i need to speak to only works weekdays so I will be calling back tomorow.

What then will they try and do if i get a chargeback? Im worried that they would clamp or tow my car again.
sharewatcher
Sorry can't help as I know nothing about contracts.

But reading that sign it says that anyone could be clamped at any time, it says bugger all about permits/exemptions
whitewing
QUOTE (dchbrown @ Sun, 31 Aug 2008 - 08:49) *
No i caught the news about Bank Charges - in fact I wrote to my bank about it and basically got a polite f*** off from them but thats another matter...

OK so ive spoken to my bank and i might be able to do a Chargeback but the department i need to speak to only works weekdays so I will be calling back tomorow.

What then will they try and do if i get a chargeback? Im worried that they would clamp or tow my car again.

The only thing they could do would be to take you to court for the money, chances are they wouldn't and would lose if they did.

If they clamped/towed again as a result, this would be a criminal offence.


zamzara
I agree with the above advice about suing the company and managing agents jointly.

Assuming you're renting, you should also get together with the others affected and see your council's tenancy relations officer to pursue charges. Interfering with your quiet enjoyment like this is a form of illegal eviction.
dave-o
"I would appeal this" he says. What a w**ker. As if they ever consider appeals.

Good luck with it. If you follow the advice here the chances are you will get your money back one way or the other.
Mike7777777
What is a "roadway"?

Is the UK the only country where car clamping is not met with a 12" angle grinder? Or gas axe?
Alexis
That's true is that. I bet anyone in E. Europe, Spain or Italy would get grinding!

I can't determine if the OP paid by credit card or not. What did the bank say when you called?
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