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Clean LieCents
Exceed Temporary 50 mph Speed Limit - Motorway Roadworks
at M1 Motorway, Southbound between Junction 7 and Junction 6a
on /07/2008 at 05:05
Contrary to S16(1) RTRA 84 & Sch2 RTOA 88
Recorded Speed was 61mph
This Allegation is supported by photograghic and/or video evidence

===================================================
I know travelling at 5am down the M1 at 61 mph on a speed restricted motoraway is an offence, but travelling only 6mph more than the 10% rule (for speedo correctness) which would mean i'd be able to travel at 55 mph and clocked at 61 mph seems petty, especially as there was not many vehicles traveling in the same direction as me and we were all travelling at the same speed, i.e. observing the road conditions, driving carefully and not really speeding on the motorway.

What can I do regarding the above offence, being as I have a clean license?

I would appreciate some help with this issue. I have not looked at the photographic/video evidence in Hertfordshire's website, but would like some help as to how accurate the video/photographic evidence as to how accurate the pictures would be (whether they can see if the driver is young/old, male or female).

I looked on the website and noticed the details you need to input and accept, got me worried before I entered to look at the evidence first.

Please help with this issue.
Clean LieCents
Anyone able to offer their opinion on this matter.
P.S. Does the camara offer excellent reproduction of images/video on this stretch of motorway?
Gaza
QUOTE (Clean LieCents @ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 - 10:52) *
Exceed Temporary 50 mph Speed Limit - Motorway Roadworks
at M1 Motorway, Southbound between Junction 7 and Junction 6a
on /07/2008 at 05:05
Contrary to S16(1) RTRA 84 & Sch2 RTOA 88
Recorded Speed was 61mph
This Allegation is supported by photograghic and/or video evidence

===================================================
I know travelling at 5am down the M1 at 61 mph on a speed restricted motoraway is an offence, but travelling only 6mph more than the 10% rule (for speedo correctness) which would mean i'd be able to travel at 55 mph and clocked at 61 mph seems petty, especially as there was not many vehicles traveling in the same direction as me and we were all travelling at the same speed, i.e. observing the road conditions, driving carefully and not really speeding on the motorway.

The tolerance is set by ACPOS and has nothing to do with speedo correctness or errors. It is there to give motorists a bit of leeway. The tolerance is defined as limit + 10% plus 2mph, therefore for 50 mph limit the speed at which enforcement begins is 57mph. You were outside the tolerance by 4 mph and over the speed limit by 11mph. The latter is the critical point not the former. What ever way you wnat to look at it you were really speeding on the motorway. 61 in a 50 is speeding as is 51 in a 50.

What can I do regarding the above offence, being as I have a clean license?

Not a lot. Once you have completed the NiP and named yourself as the driver you are likely to be offered a CoFP which means £60 and 3 points is you choose to accept it. If not, then you will be summonsed to court. If found guilty there expect a higher fine and more points.

I would appreciate some help with this issue. I have not looked at the photographic/video evidence in Hertfordshire's website, but would like some help as to how accurate the video/photographic evidence as to how accurate the pictures would be (whether they can see if the driver is young/old, male or female).

I'm sure that on this section of the M1 the enforcement is by SPECS Average Speed Cameras. The website will show the entry and exit photo, the distance between the two and the time taken. The system then works out the average speed between the two points. You seem to be suggesting that you were the driver but are now considering claiming you are not and that it may be someone. No one on here will support you with that. If you do go down that route it is conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and will see you imprisoned.

I looked on the website and noticed the details you need to input and accept, got me worried before I entered to look at the evidence first.

Why? It is just security to make sure no one is viewing information they are not entitled to view.

Please help with this issue.

Clean LieCents
I've looked at the website after giving the website the details, date, reference number and PIN,and does not seem to be an issue.

Yes, it was an Average Speed Camera System but I'm unable to view the details on the website and only able to view the 3 pictures together with the camera certificate (12/09/07 - 11/09/08).

There were only 3 pictures to look at which were an enlarged picture of the number plate (highly pixelated) as well as photos of the vehicle which was taken of the headlamps and number plate while the other was of the front of the vehicle (2/3rds of the windscreen down to the bumper/number plate as well as the road and which lane I was in.

I was not able to view the ''Site Map'' which had 8 portals showing on the bottom of the page as well as the ''Site Detail'' which had 7 portals showing, but both came up with:

'The system cannot find the file specified'

Why am I not able to view all the information given on this website?

It just seems unfair that as this is a stretch of motorway which calculate the average speed from one point to another, and in my view, if my driving was downhill and I was going 61mph, I'm sure on an uphill part, I would be going less than 45. Therefore, other than braking, I would allow the vehicle to slow down on it's own or leave the accelerator pedal where it is and if I was going uphill, I would be going around 45.

I believe it's bad driving to brake on a motorway unless you really have to.. i.e. slow braking traffic etc.
Gaza
QUOTE (Clean LieCents @ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 - 12:58) *
I've looked at the website after giving the website the details, date, reference number and PIN,and does not seem to be an issue.

Yes, it was an Average Speed Camera System but I'm unable to view the details on the website and only able to view the 3 pictures together with the camera certificate (12/09/07 - 11/09/08).

There were only 3 pictures to look at which were an enlarged picture of the number plate (highly pixelated) as well as photos of the vehicle which was taken of the headlamps and number plate while the other was of the front of the vehicle (2/3rds of the windscreen down to the bumper/number plate as well as the road and which lane I was in.

I was not able to view the ''Site Map'' which had 8 portals showing on the bottom of the page as well as the ''Site Detail'' which had 7 portals showing, but both came up with:

'The system cannot find the file specified'

Why am I not able to view all the information given on this website?

It just seems unfair that as this is a stretch of motorway which calculate the average speed from one point to another, and in my view, if my driving was downhill and I was going 61mph, I'm sure on an uphill part, I would be going less than 45. Therefore, other than braking, I would allow the vehicle to slow down on it's own or leave the accelerator pedal where it is and if I was going uphill, I would be going around 45.

I believe it's bad driving to brake on a motorway unless you really have to.. i.e. slow braking traffic etc.



Technically the scammers do not have to provide any photographs at this stage but some, such as Herts, do offer the facility. The fact the NiP staes southbound between 7 and 6a is probably sufficient.

You basic car control sounds very seriously flawed if you cannot keep to a steady speed going uphill or downhill. There is no need to brake when going down hill. I find that a bit less pressure on the accelerator normally does the trick. The only time this does not work is on a very steep hill and that does not apply to that stretch of the M1. Equally with an uphill stretch; if your speed reduces then press the pedal on the right a little harder and that should bring you back up to the speed you want.
southpaw82
You may well think it's bad driving to brake when you don't have to but, if you're exceeding the speed limit you do have to brake. Simple really!

If it was you driving then I would not recommend saying that you do not know. That way lies prison. In comparison to 3 points and a £60 fine it's not worth it, is it?
Clean LieCents
Gaza, I hope that your not stating that I'm a poor driver. I am 38 with no accidents since 1992 and never been stopped for a driving offence or had speeding offences since gaining my license in 1987. I was referring to what most other drivers do on the motorway or when approaching a speed camera.

I can keep a steady speed, and if I ever need to slow down for a speed camera, I will lift of the pedal and if needs be, change down a gear instead of using my brakes. I was just relating to what other drivers do and also the average speed camera system where I may be going faster than the 50 mph when approaching the sign, but then again, who doesn't on an average speed camera system, even yourself would admit to doing this.

I admit that I may of been doing 62mph along this stretch of motorway, but I would have liked to have known if this was the maximum speed I did or if it was calculated from one infra red camera to another and the mean speed was 62 mph which I find not plausible.
Clean LieCents
In response to Southpaw's reply, I would like to add that if this is an 'Average speed camera system' that you would be able to approach the 50mph sign at 70, travel at 70 for 50 yds, then revert to 45 mph. What would my average speed be?

Or like Jeremy Clarkson's humorous side to it in Top Gear and state that he could drive past the 1st camera system in a Bugatti Veyron doing 150mph then take a picnic on the hard shoulder and re-join the motorway 10 minutes later. I wonder what the average speed would be then? maybe 30mph....
southpaw82
That's all very well but does it help you at all? No... I'm merely correcting your impression that braking on the motorway is somehow wrong if you're in excess of the speed limit. I made no mention of average speed cameras. You can be as mad as you like at getting caught and how unfair it all is and how you're such a wonderful driver really but that has nothing to do with the situation you now face.

Now, you can either spend your time arguing on the internet or actually see if you have a defence...
Lynnzer
Just one thing to add. Specs are only approved for measuring the speed of a vehicle in a single lane. If the first camera got you in the offside lane and the second one got you in the nearside or middle then this is inadmissible.
You need to know which lanes each of the cameras was viewing so it's critical to get the details from the scammers.
southpaw82
QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 - 18:04) *
Just one thing to add. Specs are only approved for measuring the speed of a vehicle in a single lane. If the first camera got you in the offside lane and the second one got you in the nearside or middle then this is inadmissible.


I thought type approval had been granted for multi-lane use?
Clean LieCents
Lynnzer, That's interesting to know.

When I logged onto www.Hertsdirect.org/org/safetycameras then at the bottom of the page, clicked ''View your alleged offence'' then clicked on ''View Alleged Offence'' then out of the choices:
(Please select one of the following options to indicate whether you are the alleged offender or your relationship to the alleged offender:
Owner - Nominated Driver - Solicitor/Legal Representative - Helper/Guide)

I chose Helper/Guide and input the details required such as name, registration number, date of offence, reference number and PIN number, I got the details.

What has struck me is that the photos they have produced shows in:

Frame 1 = Entrance Camera Showing Infra Red Image of Vehicle (which is a photo of the vehicle whith headlights on, as it happened at 05:05am in the middle of 3 lanes showing (I'm sure this stretch may have more lanes) the front of the vehicle, bonnet and two thirds of the windscreen)

Frame 2 = Image of Vehicle Registration Number (which is a shot of the front of the vehicle only showing in the top left of the image, half a drivers side headlamp, passenger side headlamp and the registration number plate.

Frame 3 = Exit Camera Showing Image of Vehicle (it only shows an enlarged version of the vehicle's number plate which is highly pixelated)

I am not able to view the ''Site Map'' which had 8 portals showing on the bottom of the page as well as the ''Site Detail'' which had 7 portals showing, but both came up with:

'The system cannot find the file specified' and the page was blank.

Why is this the case?

I can view the Certificate of Calibration, which states:
''I, the undersigned, certify that the Speed Check SVDD device, Serial No SVDD 056 Site 985, M1 J7 - 6a Southbound complies with the terms of specification for type approval''

The device is in full working order and has been calibrated to the documented parameters for a period of twelve months.
Date from:12/09/2007 Date to: 11/09/2008
signed and dated 12/09/2007

With another page showing the calibration measurements.

Could you tell me what I should do?
How can I ask for additional information such as ''Site Map'' and ''Site Detail'' as well as knowing what lane the vehicle was in for that duration?

I don't really want to open a can of worms requesting all of this, but as I'm a newbie to receiving fines and driving offences, it just annoys me that they've not given me evidence that I've gone over 50mph over the whole duration from camera unit to camera unit. I feel that they've slapped a charge on me as if I've passed a GATSO style unit which will record the speed you passed the camera at. But as these cameras record the mean/average speed from one camera unit to another, I would want more information as to why they can substantiate they I did 62 in a 50 average speed zone.

If you need more info, please do not hesitate to reply back.
Rallyman72
It is quite simple how the camera works out your average speed. It use Optical Character Recognition (OCR) to read your numberplate as you pass each and every camera (assuming a single lane for a minute). It has a master clock that time stamps the time on the recording each time your registration is read. It knows how far each camera is apart. Using speed=distance divided by time it works out how fast you are going - bingo an average speed for the section.

Now they have, apparently, got sneaky. Where there is more than 1 lane they tie the cameras in pairs BUT camera 1 can be over lane 2, camera 2 over lane 3 and camera 3 over lane 1 etc all at random. At this point no amount of changing lanes can ensure that you do not get caught.

To average 61 mph you could pass cameras at the posted limit and feel perfectly safe but if you went at, say, 80mph in between then your average speed is going to be rather higher than the one you drove past the camera at..........

The site map and site details will, I think, be populated for GATSO and Truvelo cameras but not for SPECS. After all the SPECS here cover around 13.5 miles of motorway according to www.speedcheck.co.uk. They've been there for nearly 2 1/2 years as well thus becoming the longest serving temporary SPECS installation in the UK. Not easy to show site details and a map at a reasonable scale for that length of road.
Gaza
QUOTE (Clean LieCents @ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 - 17:32) *
Gaza, I hope that your not stating that I'm a poor driver.


QUOTE (Clean LieCents @ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 - 12:58) *
... if my driving was downhill and I was going 61mph, I'm sure on an uphill part, I would be going less than 45. Therefore, other than braking, I would allow the vehicle to slow down on it's own or leave the accelerator pedal where it is and if I was going uphill, I would be going around 45.

I believe it's bad driving to brake on a motorway unless you really have to.. i.e. slow braking traffic etc.


Speeding up when going down hill and slowing down going uphuill is poor car control in my book.

QUOTE (Clean LieCents @ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 - 17:32) *
What has struck me is that the photos they have produced shows in:

Frame 1 = Entrance Camera Showing Infra Red Image of Vehicle (which is a photo of the vehicle whith headlights on, as it happened at 05:05am in the middle of 3 lanes showing (I'm sure this stretch may have more lanes) the front of the vehicle, bonnet and two thirds of the windscreen)

Frame 2 = Image of Vehicle Registration Number (which is a shot of the front of the vehicle only showing in the top left of the image, half a drivers side headlamp, passenger side headlamp and the registration number plate.

Frame 3 = Exit Camera Showing Image of Vehicle (it only shows an enlarged version of the vehicle's number plate which is highly pixelated)


The photos are to identify the vehicle not the driver. You do not seem to be disputing the fact you were there at the time and date and the photos seem to confirm this.

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 - 19:12) *
QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 - 18:04) *
Just one thing to add. Specs are only approved for measuring the speed of a vehicle in a single lane. If the first camera got you in the offside lane and the second one got you in the nearside or middle then this is inadmissible.


I thought type approval had been granted for multi-lane use?


Me too. I'm sure it changed about a year ago. Most SPECS sites on M-ways only have two cameras covering 3 lanes
captain swoop
In the roadworks on the A1 widening at Wetherby there is one camera covering 2 lanes through most of the works with 1 camera covering 3 lanes att he entry and exit to the works.
cjard
QUOTE (Clean LieCents @ Thu, 21 Aug 2008 - 17:32) *
Gaza, I hope that your not stating that I'm a poor driver. I am 38 with no accidents since 1992 and never been stopped for a driving offence or had speeding offences since gaining my license in 1987.

No offences that you were caught for! I'm sure, in the interim time (just like every other driver in britian) you have committed hundreds.

QUOTE
I can keep a steady speed,

Then why did you say you didnt/couldnt?

QUOTE
and if I ever need to slow down for a speed camera, I will lift of the pedal and if needs be, change down a gear instead of using my brakes.

Cost of replacement clutch: £700
Cost of replacement engine: £2000
Cost of replacement gearbox: £1000

Cost of replacement brake pads: £14.95

Nice one

Don't forget that using your brakes.. illuminates your brake lights! This helps people behind you know that you are slowing, and reduces the risk of a shunt accident! As a good driver, I'm sure you'll know that any action you can take to reduce the risk to yourself and your passengers, should be taken..


QUOTE
I was just relating to what other drivers do and also the average speed camera system where I may be going faster than the 50 mph when approaching the sign, but then again, who doesn't on an average speed camera system, even yourself would admit to doing this.

No, see what you do with the average systems (if you really want to speed) is make sure youre doing bang on <the speed limit> by the time the first camera is looking at you, then drive bang on <the speed limit> until the last camera has finished looking at you, then accelerate before the NSL signs. That way you have speeded (well done) in the first section, and the last section, but not in the section you get caught for. I really have seen people daft enough to slow down to the limit for EACH gantry, thinking that the cams take your average speed at each site, and if on average youre over, then bam. Techncially the cameras can read your plate and time at each gantry and if you have exceeded the speed limit in any stretch of a SPECced area, you can be done for it. This is why you dont do 61, then 45 over th course of 4 camera gantries, because though you may averge 50 over the whole lot, you will have averaged more than 50 for SOME of the sections.

I'd seriously recommend you invest in a car with cruise control. It will even save your ass round town (most car cruise controls will maintain 30mph) and allow you to continually cover the brake for fastest braking response

You can of course, avoid NIPs from average systems by doing the speed limit that is in place for the entire duration that it is in place, thereby ensuring you dont whoosh by the first camera, and accelerate past the last one.
Clean LieCents
cjard, seems like your well clued up. I'm not worthy of driving a vehicle I guess. Like I've said before, I've never been stopped for any driving offence, had a speeding fine or had points on my license. How comes when I use the motorways (which is quite often) I've never been done by a GATSO or SPEC camera system. I drive on the M25, Canary Wharf underpass, lower thames street which all have Gatso's or ave. speed cameras, as well as using the M1, M6 to Chester, Birmingham and Liverpool every month and not received a speeding offence. I've lived in America and driven through America as well as drive through France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Sardinia and Sicily and not recieved any speeding fines or stopped by police. I guess you'd say I must be the luckiest guy on earth! or is it that I may be be a decent driver after all!

How can that be, when I'm classed as a poor driver? I also thought you'd know and may of read that when you slow down, if there are no vehicles within the vicinity, that there's no need to warn drivers that you are slowing down. If on the few occasions that you need to slow down with force, then you let others know by pumping your brakes and in certain circumstances, switch on your hazzard warning lights to alert other drivers. I'm not thick and certainly not a poor driver! I even leave a large enough gap (sometimes double or triple that of other drivers) on the motorway and dual carriageways to allow me to slow down naturally (in your case, lift off the gas/accelerator pedal) without using my brakes and stop the domino effect from going past me unless I need to alert other drivers to slow down and not hit my vehicle by using my brakes should I need to. But then again, if other drivers were to drive a safe distance, then would not be this domino effect miles down the road.

I'm old enough and professional enough to not get involved in accidents or dings, especially as I live on the outskirts of London where there are large percentages of drivers that are either, a) selfish, b) inexperienced, c) or both and some not insured. In my opinion I like to state that being a good driver is like being a professional snooker player. I hear you ask 'why'? Well, a pro snooker player thinks of many shots (maybe up to 8 shots ahead or more, so that he can hit balls A-Z, but for your case, the red, then the colour, then the red, then the colour, the red then a colour, maybe until he gets to the baulk colours, sorry in your case, the yellow, then the green, then the brown until he can then line up his cue ball to pot the blue, pink and finally the black), Maybe you need to ask someone like Ronnie O'Sullivan if he thinks the same. Well, likewise with an experienced driver that thinks of many obstacles (pedestrian or vehicular) in front of him and look at not the vehicle in front of him but many vehicles past that and behind. You can in some circumstances, think and know what a driver is about to do and be ready for that should it happen.


I think that's why I've not been involved in an accident and can afford to drive vehicle such as a Mercedes Benz CL Class which has every conceivable extra you can think of including £700 wing mirrors that have a self dimming electrochromatic feature as well as heated and aircon seats that have a massage option.

And like you've stated, your the best driver in Britain, as you've never gone over 20, 30, 50, 60 or 70 mph as stated on the roadside signage? It would be great if all vehicles were only able to go the speed of the stated roadside sign.

No doubt you'll replyback with smug comments.
cjard
Imagining that I'm a magistrate, how do you think I'd receive your holier-than-thou comments?

QUOTE
I've never been stopped for any driving offence, had a speeding fine or had points on my license.

Mmmh yes, but that doesnt mean you havent committed any!

QUOTE
How comes when I use the motorways (which is quite often) I've never been done by a GATSO or SPEC camera system

Until now? Maybe the cruise control on your car wasnt working on this occasion?

QUOTE
every month and not received a speeding offence

Until now? Maybe you always just pushed it a little bit, setting a speed of 55 on your cruise control (doubtless a nice shiny mercedes like yours has a digital readout of the speed the computer will keep), and this time you pushed it a little too far, bit of a rush, moron X5 driver behind, you know..?
If youre asserting that this occasion is no different to any other occasion you have travelled through this set of specs then either:

The computer made a mistake calculating your speed, and youre innocent
You've always sped through these SPECS and this time you got nailed

You tell me; how many times do you think you'd have to do 2+2 on a calculator before it messed up and gave you the answer 5?

I dont see what your point is, with pushing how never having been done for anything makes you some wonderful driver wronged on this occasion. Do you think it will wash in court or something?

QUOTE
or is it that I may be be a decent driver after all!

My test of whether a driver is a good one is not of whether they consistently obey the laws of the roads on which they drive, or even whether they do not get caught when they do offend. It is far more subjective, and I'd need to sit in your car with you at the wheel to know whether, in my opinion, youre a good driver (and that's the only opinion that counts, and it is not the opinion we are debating.)
If it helps you understand further, the legal system doesnt give a monkeys how good a driver you think you are either. Their computer says you broke one of their laws. End of discussion about "good driver", star tof discussion about how to ensure that they followed exacting procedure to nail you with an exacting law


QUOTE
I also thought you'd know and may of read that when you slow down, if there are no vehicles within the vicinity, that there's no need to warn drivers that you are slowing down.

I have some entries on a flame pit thread actually, about that very thing, where I'm proposing the relative merits of NOT indicating when changing lanes on the motorway..

QUOTE
If on the few occasions that you need to slow down with force, then you let others know by pumping your brakes and in certain circumstances, switch on your hazzard warning lights to alert other drivers.

Tell you what. Next time you need to do an emergency stop, please just apply the brakes as hard as you can*, and let the very expensive german ABS system in your nice shiny mercedes worry about keeping the wheels turning so as to maintain directional control, while you keep your eyes on the road, steering gently round potential obstacles like small children, rather than fannying around in the cabin, looking for the hazard warning lights button? Thanks

* you may have heard of a system called Emergency Brake Assist (it may have a different name on your car) where the car works out whether youre performing an emergency stop, and if youre not slamming the brakes on as hard as it thinks you could, it helps slam them on for you. Your little pumping stunt will no doubt confuse the computer into not assisting, and further, pumping the pedal depletes the vacuum servo that assists your braking. While modern cars have significant reserves it is highly inadvisable to deplete it unnecessarily because you lose braking effort to a considerable degree. If you wish to drone on about how good a driver you are, you would do well to avoid making statements that outline the notion that you know nearly nothing about the car you are driving. If you adopt a similar approach in any argument you propose in court, it will be very detrimental to your case!

nb; interestingly, my friend's citroen C5 would automatically put the hazards on when the ABS activated.. I always thought that was quite an innovative bit of thinking from the french. I've never known another car do it.

QUOTE
I'm not thick and certainly not a poor driver!

The grammar and content of your posts is not helping you prove that assertion. Now does any of what you say have any bearing on the legal aspects of your case, or are you just trying to show your ability to show attention to ineffectual and irrelevant detail?


QUOTE
seats that have a massage option.

Do be careful when using those; it may see you in court one day for driving without due care and attention.

QUOTE
And like you've stated, your the best driver in Britain

Well, I've re-read my post a couple of times and I just cannot see where I state this.

Would you stand in court and listen to the judge deliver to you some fact, and counter it with a "Oh, I suppose you think youre so damn clever don't you? Sitting up there, thinking youre some kind of god of the law or something. Youre an insignificant argumentative moron, and I'm better than you because I have a shiny car that I've driven all over the world without so much as a parking ticket, so get off my case"

Can you see? It just.. doesnt look good.

QUOTE
you've never gone over 20, 30, 50, 60 or 70 mph as stated on the roadside signage?

Well youre "not thick", so you'll surely be able to see how when I said "[committed an offence] like every other driver in britain", that would necessarily apply to me too. Now, if you can just kindly point out the moment where I said I'd never committed a vehicular crime..

QUOTE
would be great if all vehicles were only able to go the speed of the stated roadside sign

And I'll reiterate a bit of advice that I follow myself and find invaluable:

(Let's just talk about your vehicle, rather than all vehicles) - Your vehicle can do this! It's amazing: You use your eyes to look for speed limit signs. You then call up the cruise control panel of the onboard computer of your shiny mercedes with the massage seats, and you dial in the same digits that you saw on the speed limit sign, and you hit "cruise". Wow. You can now travel through town at the speed limit with your foot covering the brake instead of the accelerator and gain an extra few tenths of a second in an emergency braking situation, not risk getting your foot caught etc etc. I can't see the disadvantage! Can you?

QUOTE
No doubt you'll replyback with smug comments.

Well, you did invite them.. Overall, I'd like to think this is a learning experience for you, from the standpoint of presenting a sound argument that cannot be picked apart - you may come to rely on these skills if the video evidence holds and you refuse to buy your 3 stripes for that bargain £60

In the meantime, feel free to ask for any advice; I'm not going to feed you a load of cra just because you took exception to a couple of things I said.. but if we can avoid this descending into a playground argument, I'd prefer it

southpaw82
And this is helping to resolve your legal problem how...? rolleyes.gif

If you want to argue about whether you're a good driver or not why not try pistonheads or something.
Clean LieCents
OK guys, I give in..... I came on this site to ask whether anyone is able to offer advice as to my 1st post. I never came on to pose such questions to receive such sarcasm. I will hold my hands up to this offence and count myself lucky for all the other times I've driven 33mph in a 30mph zone, 52 in a 50 etc. etc. and rest my case.
Pete D
There are some well versed contributors on here yet appear to want to do your own thing from a postion of no knowledge. The 10% plus 2 is only a guideline, not a rule, and it is very old. It was not introduced for speedo accuracy but detection accuracy which has inproved significanly. By law a speedo can not under read and has a spec to restrict the overread. Why you think 61 is at all close to 50 I do not know. There are a couple oc cases recently (Cumbria) where 77 and 78 have recieved NIPs on a 70 motorway. Take it on th chin and move on. Pete D
roythebus
You could always check the appropriate Traffic Order covering that section of road to make sure
a) that there IS one
b) to check it is correctly worded and still in force if as some have said it's been there for about 2 years.
Clean LieCents
Pete,
Thanks, but it wasn't the fact that I deny doing over the speed limit, it was that I may of been doing slightly over 70 when I approached the 50mph average speed zone and then went below 50 to even it out, but it didn't seem the case, hence I came on here to ask you guys to help me out. I've driven past these cameras on the M1 from London either via the M25 or up the A5 (Marble Arch/Kilburn) then onto the M6 many times over the years and never received a fine. Same goes for the temporary average speed zone on the A2 before the M25 junction up to the gravesend junction.
cjard
QUOTE (Clean LieCents @ Sun, 24 Aug 2008 - 17:59) *
Pete,
Thanks, but it wasn't the fact that I deny doing over the speed limit, it was that I may of been doing slightly over 70 when I approached the 50mph average speed zone and then went below 50 to even it out, but it didn't seem the case, hence I came on here to ask you guys to help me out. I've driven past these cameras on the M1 from London either via the M25 or up the A5 (Marble Arch/Kilburn) then onto the M6 many times over the years and never received a fine. Same goes for the temporary average speed zone on the A2 before the M25 junction up to the gravesend junction.


THere are a great many things that we are not privy to, such as how often the SPECS in these areas are actually active, how big the pile of paperwork is that they have generated.. There could be any number of reasons why you have successfully made the trip (in excess of the speed limits) before without being ticketed and now you have. If your curiousity needs satisfying it will, i'm afraid, cost you a little bit, but you'll need to:

Nominate yourself as the driver (failing to do so is bad, nominating someone else can be prison) and they will then offer you a penalty for the speeding
Ignore the offer, or politely reply (I'd ignore it - it's slightly more likely to time out that way) that you'd like to take it to court. They will likely be delighted to do so.
When you get a court summons, enter a plea of not guilty and request to be furnished with all the evidence they have against you
You lose your early-discount-for-guilty-plea and that's where the cost of getting the evidence comes in, but you'll have the full pack for your musing
You might choose to go on and make a case of it from there, but you should at least be able to see where and how you were got. It's likely it will be as simple as Time X, Camera A to Time Y, Camera B = Z distance in T time, and that's equivalent of 61mph

The defences you would have would be whether the limit was legally enforcible, the cameras operated properly and are indeed the distance Z apart and correctly measured the time T


Balance it up against a small penalty and a slight rise in insurance.. I'd probably just take the points when offered at the earliest opportunity if I felt I didnt have a reasonable defence but you can change your plea at any time
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