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Hootza
If I decide not to reply to an NIP which is addressed to my company and not to an individual I would expect the company director to be summonsed. When found guilty of not providing the evidence, what is the likely outcome? I assume they cannot allocate points to anyone as the owner is not an individual. Would the fine be excessive?
Pete D
What is your position with in the company. Company addressed mail of this type is normally dealt with by the company secretary. Pete D
Hootza
I am the Sales Director. Are you suggesting that the company secretary could be given points for failing to supply the info?
Pete D
No, they should have provided details of the driver. The fine for companies not identiying the driver is £500 or so from memory. However they may still come after the driver, issue a new NIP or summons or even call into the company. Pete D
southpaw82
Road Traffic Act 1988, s. 172(5):

Where a body corporate is guilty of an offence under this section and the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.
nemo
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 14 Aug 2008 - 12:52) *
Road Traffic Act 1988, s. 172(5):

Where a body corporate is guilty of an offence under this section and the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.

A fine, yes. But no points, AIUI..
picko
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 14 Aug 2008 - 12:52) *
Road Traffic Act 1988, s. 172(5):
guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.


and back to the OP's question. Would the company person, held liable, be facing fine? Fine and points?
7159keith
QUOTE (nemo @ Thu, 14 Aug 2008 - 12:57) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 14 Aug 2008 - 12:52) *
Road Traffic Act 1988, s. 172(5):

Where a body corporate is guilty of an offence under this section and the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.

A fine, yes. But no points, AIUI..




As it says, the company and the person are liable but AFAIK they usually only prosecute the company so no points just a 500 quid fine.
nemo
QUOTE (7159keith @ Thu, 14 Aug 2008 - 15:52) *
QUOTE (nemo @ Thu, 14 Aug 2008 - 12:57) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 14 Aug 2008 - 12:52) *
Road Traffic Act 1988, s. 172(5):

Where a body corporate is guilty of an offence under this section and the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.

A fine, yes. But no points, AIUI..


As it says, the company and the person are liable but AFAIK they usually only prosecute the company so no points just a 500 quid fine.

Yes. But even if they were to proceed against an individual (as well as the company), then its my understanding that the individual would not have any points imposed upon conviction.

retroman
One bit of info missing. Is it a limited company?

If it is then the NIP has to be served on the company secretary (s.172(8)). If not its a non runner. A limited company is a legal entity in its own right and can be prosecuted. A fine but no points. A company that is a sole trader or partnership is different. Each owner or partner can be prosecuted and can get points.

On the other hand as earlier quoted s.172 (5) would leave the individual liable to points. Or worse a more serious offence.
nemo
QUOTE (retroman @ Thu, 14 Aug 2008 - 16:57) *
On the other hand as earlier quoted s.172 (5) would leave the individual liable to points.

QUOTE (Schedule 2 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988)
Relevant Act: RTA section 172
Offence: Failure of person keeping vehicle and others to give police information as to identity of driver, etc., in the case of certain offences.
Mode of prosecution: Summarily.
Level of fine: Level 3 on the standard scale.
Disqualification: Discretionary, if committed otherwise than by virtue of subsection (5) or (11).
Endorsement: Obligatory, if committed otherwise than by virtue of subsection (5) or (11).

huh.gif
The Rookie
QUOTE (retroman @ Thu, 14 Aug 2008 - 16:57) *
If it is then the NIP has to be served on the company secretary (s.172(8)).


Where did you get that 'gem' from, its served on the registered keeper, which is normally the fleet manager, andy 'authroised' [erson within the company can/should reply....

Simon
Hotel Oscar 87
The RK could well be a limited company and the section Retroman is referring to:

QUOTE
(8) Where the person on whom a notice under subsection (7) above is to be served is a body corporate, the notice is duly served if it is served on the secretary or clerk of that body.


(Sec. 172 (8) RTA 1988 as amended by Sec 21 RTA 1991)
The Rookie
Indeed....clerk....
patdavies
QUOTE (Hotel Oscar 87 @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 - 17:12) *
The RK could well be a limited company and the section Retroman is referring to:

QUOTE
(8) Where the person on whom a notice under subsection (7) above is to be served is a body corporate, the notice is duly served if it is served on the secretary or clerk of that body.


(Sec. 172 (8) RTA 1988 as amended by Sec 21 RTA 1991)


So, if it is sent to anybody other than the company secretary (eg fleet manager or managing director) then it is not served and can be ignored anyway?
The Rookie
I believe NOT as the 'last known address' from DVLA caveat will come into play, they realistically can't then try and guess the right co, go to company house and get the co' sec's details! AFAIK 'clerk' is not an official position but could be used to mean any responsible person in the company, like for example the details listed on the V5.

Simon
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