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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] 36 in a 30, NIP 28days expired
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
djroj2001
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - June 2008
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 43 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Welford Road (Near Prison), Leicester
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:34:18 +0100
djroj2001
Just to explain. I live in a shared block of flats and the post is delivered into a communal area for collection. The original NIP was discovered by me today, wedged between the back of the post rack and on opening it I discovered that the 28 days has already passed! I have been out of the country on business for the last 3 weeks (which I can obviously prove), and this was the first time I have checked the post, so of course I also got the reminder letter, stating that I have seven days to respond with details. I was clearly horrified at discovering this, so I phoned them straight away, but as its a weekend, no one was available to answer my call, hence why I am here. The reminder letter was dated 30/07/2008, and stated I had 7 days to reply, making the deadline the 6/08/2008. Now, I can prove that I was out of the country for the reminder letter (if that bears any leverage), but obviously it is a case of giving my word that I only found the original NIP today (again, if this bears any legal leverage).

This is a fairly minor offence, 36 in a 30, and I have no licence points. I would not risk going to court for the sake of a couple of hundred quid and 3 points. This is absolutely genuine, and I need advice on how I should proceed. Obviously I will be contacting Leicestershire constabulary both on the phone, and by way of submitting my details (via special delivery) on monday morning.
djroj2001
Can anyone help me?
Hotel Oscar 87
Hi dj

Don't worry! The relevant section of the Road Traffic Act 1988 was amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991 to include this section:

QUOTE
(7) A requirement under subsection (2) may be made by written notice served by post; and where it is so made—

(a) it shall have effect as a requirement to give the information within the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice is served, and

(b) the person on whom the notice is served shall not be guilty of an offence under this section if he shows either that he gave the information as soon as reasonably practicable after the end of that period or that it has not been reasonably practicable for him to give it.

[my emphasis]

What you should do is to complete the form immediately and attach to it a letter explaining that you have been working abroad. Explain the postal arrangements and tell them who were working for and where and give details of your flights (presuming that you flew). Explain that you have only just discovered the letter and have replied as soon as you could. Make photocopies of all the paperwork, including your letter, then return the completed form with the letter attached to the address given by Recorded Delivery.

At the end of the day what the scammers are actually after is your money and so if you willingly put yourself on the hook for them they rarely ignore the offer. The reason I have I suggested you reply in the way outlined is that you would be liable for 6 points and a fine of around £300 for failing to complete the form. As you have no points currently and the alleged speed is 36 in a 30 you may well qualify for a Spreed Awareness Course. These operate in Leicestershire - see here.
cjard
QUOTE (Hotel Oscar 87 @ Sun, 10 Aug 2008 - 10:08) *
The reason I have I suggested you reply in the way outlined is that you would be liable for 6 points and a fine of around £300 for failing to complete the form. As you have no points currently and the alleged speed is 36 in a 30 you may well qualify for a Spreed Awareness Course. These operate in Leicestershire - see here.


..provided also, that you have not recently (3 years?) taken a Speed Awareness Course aready.

HO87's advice is further sound because, even if convicted of speeding, it is far better to be able to say to your insurance company "yes, i got done for 36 in a 30" [and joined the 2 million other motorists done for speeding this year] than it is to say "yes, i got done for not providing vital information when it was asked of me" - given that your insurance contract is formed from honest info you provide etc etc
djroj2001
Thanks for the advice. I have sent a letter off by special delivery explaining the situation and also asking them to consider me for a speed awareness course. Hopefully they will understand that this is a genuine case of me responding as soon as I possibly could.
djroj2001
How does the notion of "serving" work? Can they claim that I was "served" the letter, even though it was delivered to a shared address and hidden away in someone elses pile of post? I did not sign for any letter personally, and therefore I think it's unfair if I now get prosecuted for failing to supply information, when I wasn't even aware that a letter had been delivered.

I am concerned because I have no proof (other than my word), that the original NIP remained unopened until after the 28-day deadline. There is no possible proof to this?!

I have now submitted the details and explained the situation via special delivery, 4 days after the imposed deadline (I posted it on the first working day after realising I had been served a NIP). What do you reckon they will do?

As previously mentioned, I can prove that I could not possibly have received and replied to the reminder letter in time, due to being out of the country.

Thanks,
Andy
The Rookie
Serving is delievry to your last known address, so yes, its manner of service is satisfactory, as long as you reply reasonably promptly its unlikley the late responce will be of any consequance, if it is, you have a valid defence that is believable.

Simon
djroj2001
An update for you guys... I heard back from them yesterday. They don't seem bothered about me missing the deadline and have even offered me a SAC which is pefect! Thanks for your help, I hope I don't need to come here again soon!
cjard
Indeed.. From most of the S172 i've seen they tend to lay at the very last minute. My own S172 prosecution included a statement 5 months after the alleged offence that "to date no response has been seen by this office" which implies that they leave it as long as possible for various reasons. I'm sure if they suspected you were up to no good they'd bring the 28 days into force, but in a case where you have a genuine reason for missing the deadline it's far cheaper to believe you and hit you with what you admitted to than risk a magistrate finding that your defence to S172 was valid and you "getting away with it"

If you think the evidence proving you were speeding is flawed and defensible then you contest that you were ever speeidng at all, but you may find that route more of a nusiance than taking a day's holiday and attending the course..

If youre not back here soon, do fee free to recommend the place if you feel it would benefit others

djroj2001
QUOTE (cjard @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 - 10:50) *
If youre not back here soon, do fee free to recommend the place if you feel it would benefit others


I certainly will be doing that...
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