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JJforshort
Hi guys,

I got picked up the other day at around 4am (early start). I joined the motorway which was quiet and bumbled along at speed, after about 60 seconds I was aware that there was a car behind me matching my speed so i checked my speedo and i was going a bit quick so slowed down.. then the motorway drops into a 50 section where i did the posted limit and then back up to 70-55 the other side of it. Thats where I got pulled.

Anyhow Jumped in cop car, copper on his own told me he was going to take me to court for 98mph on a motorway.. I don't believe I went to that speed, but I was going fast so am not going to argue as i was over the limit. He had a calibrated speedo, not a motorway copper but would be classed as an expert witness.

He issued me with a verbal nip, he was profesional but obviously very hacked off. Anyhow he let me on my way.

Basically what can I expect in court? Currently a clean license, been driving around 7 years without conviction (yes i know this could be interpreted as not being caught and being lucky).

Another point to note is that i was driving a fleet car thats not mine.. I was wondering if it could beput down to the fact that i regularly drive the smae make but with less power (same age) and hadn't realised the speed i was doing, which to be honest I hadn't.

Kinda expecting 6 points and a fine? As long as I don't get a ban I will accept the points. A ban would have implications with my job!
nemo
QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 09:15) *
Basically what can I expect in court?

The current sentencing guidelines suggest 4-5 points (likely) OR a short term disqualification (less likely). The fine is difficult to predict accurately because it will be means related (and depends upon the magistrates on the day) but, if I had to guess, I'd say a couple of hundred give or take. On top of this, expect to pay costs of not less than £45 plus the mandatory Victim Support Surcharge of £15.

QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 09:15) *
..I was wondering if it could beput down to the fact that i regularly drive the smae make but with less power (same age) and hadn't realised the speed i was doing,

That wouldn't mitigate (or provide a defence for) the alleged offence.
JJforshort
QUOTE (nemo @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 09:32) *
The current sentencing guidelines suggest 4-5 points (likely) OR a short term disqualification (less likely).


Points and a fine, short term ban I could deal with.. The fine isn't great as im kinda struggling but can borrow the money so wouldn't be a problem really. A short term ban, woudl that be upto 56 days? Again I could deal with this, not great but I can bus into work (or get a lift) and could get a train / plane to other offices if need be.

Not ideal by any stretch but I could still do my job. Basically I'm worried about loosing my job, and in turn defaulting on my motgauge.

As far as im concerned I believe 6 points would be a better option than a ban for me as I will be unlikely to speed again for fear of a long ban under the totting up rule! Im wary of what to mention in court as even if I mean it in the most honest way it coul be taken another way.

Also does the copper have to turn up for the hearing? there is no video evidence so is his word against mine.. I know the court would tke his word over mine so not going to deny speeding but will mention that id idn't realise quite how fast I was allegedly going.

Time to dry clean my suit sad.gif
Keds
obviously it's not what you want, but it's what punishment the bench would like to give you. In some ways the 4-5 points is more of a punishment as, as you've said, it will slow you down for fear of any more points. The ban might be easier for you, but take into account your insurance (for when you get a private car).

If you plead guilty, the copper will not have to turn up at court. If you plead not guilty it will go to trial and the copper will be asked to attend. He will identify you and say he did everything by the book, you're right, his word against yours.

If you do dispute the speed, you can ask for a Newton hearing (after pleading guilty), which basically means you're guilty but you don't agree with the speed. To be honest, this aint worth it (in my opinion) for your case. You'll need a solicitor to argue your case, they can be tricky things and you'll have to put reasonable doubt into the mind of the bench, no easy task. But, I'm giving you the options.

After 4th August, new sentencing guidelines come into play and the fines will be more defined, so before the 4th in some instances the fine does depend on the bench and whether it's raining in Papua new Guinea or not. After the 4th, your fine will be dependent on your take home pay, excluding anything like your mortgage, food, clothes etc etc.

nemo
QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:04) *
A short term ban, woudl that be upto 56 days?

7-28 days, according to the latest sentencing guidelines.

QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:04) *
Also does the copper have to turn up for the hearing?

Not if you are planning on entering a guilty plea, no.

QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:04) *
there is no video evidence so is his word against mine..

That would be sufficient to prove the offence.

QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:04) *
Time to dry clean my suit..

A guilty plea entered at the first reasonable opportunity would qualify for a sentence reduction of up to 1/3.

If the court is considering disqualification, you would be compelled to attend for sentencing.

Even if you are not required to attend court, it may be a good idea to do so anyway. IMO, the act of dressing smartly, appearing polite and contrite in front of the bench and offering mitigation in person is likely produce a better result than simply not turning up for sentencing or writing a letter which will be read out in court.

JJforshort
QUOTE (Keds @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:18) *
obviously it's not what you want, but it's what punishment the bench would like to give you. In some ways the 4-5 points is more of a punishment as, as you've said, it will slow you down for fear of any more points. The ban might be easier for you, but take into account your insurance (for when you get a private car).


Just to add that I have a private car (old land rover mm slow) and this was a pool car from my firm. Thanks for the rest of your advise i would prefer points to be honest as I can still drive to and from work.. I can cycle but my misses lives 30 miles away so would not be able to uhh fulfil her needs after a 30 mile bike ride rolleyes.gif


QUOTE (nemo @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:18) *
QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:04) *
A short term ban, woudl that be upto 56 days?

7-28 days, according to the latest sentencing guidelines.

QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:04) *
Also does the copper have to turn up for the hearing?

Not if you are planning on entering a guilty plea, no.

QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:04) *
there is no video evidence so is his word against mine..

That would be sufficient to prove the offence.

QUOTE (JJforshort @ Thu, 31 Jul 2008 - 10:04) *
Time to dry clean my suit..

A guilty plea entered at the first reasonable opportunity would qualify for a sentence reduction of up to 1/3.

If the court is considering disqualification, you would be compelled to attend for sentencing.

Even if you are not required to attend court, it may be a good idea to do so anyway. IMO, the act of dressing smartly, appearing polite and contrite in front of the bench and offering mitigation in person is likely produce a better result than simply not turning up for sentencing or writing a letter which will be read out in court.




Thats all good advice, assuming the court summons turns up I will attend as I would like to show willing, and I will plead guilty as im not going to argue the to$..

Thanks for the good advice guys.. I will keep the thread up to date with any info I get.

Many Thanks!
JJforshort
Out of interest, how long would a summons take to apear? Whats the Norm? I would prefer to know whats happening and not be fearful of my postman, hes a nice guy!
cjard
Anything up to about 6.5 months after the date of the offence.. 6 months from the offence is the time limit for trying a speeding case in magistrates court, so the police have to tell the court "we want to prosecute X for Y" before the end of the 6 months period, and the court and postal system would contribute to the other two weeks. If you havent heard anything after 6.5 months, you probably arent going to get done.. No point kicking a sleeping rottweiler though, so just go about your life and we'll help you deal with it if anything drops through the post
Hotel Oscar 87
The average time for service of summons after an offence is between 3 and 8 weeks.

QUOTE (cjard @ Fri, 8 Aug 2008 - 08:55) *
Anything up to about 6.5 months after the date of the offence.. 6 months from the offence is the time limit for trying a speeding case in magistrates court, so the police have to tell the court "we want to prosecute X for Y" before the end of the 6 months period, and the court and postal system would contribute to the other two weeks. If you havent heard anything after 6.5 months, you probably arent going to get done.. No point kicking a sleeping rottweiler though, so just go about your life and we'll help you deal with it if anything drops through the post


Not entirely correct. The limitation on bringing proceedings for excess speed is 6 calendar months from the date of the offence and by the expiry of that period the prosecution must apply to the Magistrates for a summons (this is formally known as "laying an information") but the obtaining and service of the summons could then be done at any time for up to 3 years.

There's little point at this stage in raising false hopes as few offences "time out".
JJforshort
Cheers chaps, hope its in the 'weeks' and not 'months' range. Just want it off my mind!
jobo
sorry if its a daft question

but how do you know it was a calibrated speedo
nemo
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 8 Aug 2008 - 16:28) *
but how do you know it was a calibrated speedo

If the alleged speed was significantly in excess of the prevailing limit, it may well be that the magistrates would accept the corroborative evidence provided by a speedometer without any proof of its accuracy.
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