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Naughty1
Hi,

if you have been stopped for speeding and told by the police that you will be summons to court, when do you need to inform your insurance company? Do I need to tell them now or only after its been to court and I've been found guilty?

thanks
Durzel
Well, what can you tell them at this stage? You don't know how many points you are going to get, or whether you will be banned, or whatever. Until your licence is formally endorsed (or you're disqualified) there's no information you could really give them.
Blackbird
QUOTE
Until your licence is formally endorsed (or you're disqualified) there's no information you could really give them.
I disagree.
Most insurance companies insist that 'pending' cases are declared at renewal time. Whilst no summons has been issued at this stage (nothing stated in Naughty1's post anyway) according to the BiB a summons will be arriving, therefore this should be declared. When exactly this should be declared depends on the small print in / with the insurance policy.
Suggest you should read your documentation Naughty1.
patdavies
QUOTE (Blackbird @ Wed, 23 Jul 2008 - 06:58) *
QUOTE
Until your licence is formally endorsed (or you're disqualified) there's no information you could really give them.
I disagree.
Most insurance companies insist that 'pending' cases are declared at renewal time. Whilst no summons has been issued at this stage (nothing stated in Naughty1's post anyway) according to the BiB a summons will be arriving, therefore this should be declared. When exactly this should be declared depends on the small print in / with the insurance policy.
Suggest you should read your documentation Naughty1.



I disagree further.

Until a summons arrives setting a court date in the future, there is no pending case (or prosecution); there is simply a Police investiagtion.

What the BiB said is immaterial as the the prosecuting authority is not BiB, it is the CPS
Blackbird
QUOTE (patdavies)
I disagree further
yes point taken and I did think of that before I posted.
Whilst the OP used a question
QUOTE
if you have been stopped for speeding and told by the police that you will be summons to court, when do you need to inform your insurance company?
I was reading this as meaning (rightly or wrongly) that this has happened to the OP. If no penalty was issued at the side of the road then the alleged speed would have to be high and a prosecution in almost all circumstances would follow. A roadside bo..ocking would be a different story.

But back to the original point, the OP knows what the situation is (unlike us!) and should read his/her policy paperwork which will almost certainly say what should be done.
Durzel
QUOTE (Blackbird @ Wed, 23 Jul 2008 - 15:15) *
QUOTE (patdavies)
I disagree further
yes point taken and I did think of that before I posted.
Whilst the OP used a question
QUOTE
if you have been stopped for speeding and told by the police that you will be summons to court, when do you need to inform your insurance company?
I was reading this as meaning (rightly or wrongly) that this has happened to the OP. If no penalty was issued at the side of the road then the alleged speed would have to be high and a prosecution in almost all circumstances would follow. A roadside bo..ocking would be a different story.

But back to the original point, the OP knows what the situation is (unlike us!) and should read his/her policy paperwork which will almost certainly say what should be done.

I guess the point I was making was that until the OP actually knows what he is going to get in terms of the endorsement code, amount of points, etc then all he can really tell his insurance company is that he may or may not be summonsed at some point in the future. It seems counter-intuitive to me - it would be akin to telling your insurance company that you are thinking of buying some alloy wheels in the future, but haven't just yet - it's something they would load your policy on, but until they have confirmation that you've done it, how much they're worth, etc then they can't re-assess your risk to them as a policyholder.

Unless the OP knows that barring a small miracle he would be banned outright then I don't see how an insurance company could legitimately make a fuss about a prosecution that - at this stage - may not even happen.
Blackbird
QUOTE
It seems counter-intuitive to me - it would be akin to telling your insurance company that you are thinking of buying some alloy wheels in the future, but haven't just yet - it's something they would load your policy on, but until they have confirmation that you've done it, how much they're worth, etc then they can't re-assess your risk to them as a policyholder.
I agree, but I do have some 'form' on this subject rolleyes.gif

I was prosecuted for speeding and failure to supply. The alleged speed was 'high'. The speeding charge could never succeed but that didn't stop the CPS from progressing it for 2 years in the Mags Court ....... until they eventually agreed they had no evidence.

I had to declare for 2 renewals of both bike and van insurance that action was being taken against me. Surprisingly no loading was imposed on the van insurance and only a small amount was levied against me on the bike insurance. Non declaration would have invalidated my policies even though I knew that eventually I would be proved to be correct and that I would not be convicted.
I accept that the situation is different here since no charges have been laid (as far as we know) at present but the point that I have been making is that the strict legal position wrt charges being laid might not be the driver for the position of the insurance company.
Naughty1
I've read through many of the posts here but how do various area's (courts) fine/ban/give points? Are some area's worse than than others for the same offence? Are the courts in Cheshire tougher than those in Cumbria for instance?
Naughty1
In the FAQ page this is highlighted in bold. What advantage do you gain by producing your license later? As I see it, the only advantage is if you were to dispute being there (ie no positive ID).

thanks
Keds
There should be no reason why one court should be more or less tougher than any other court.

All new magistrates through out the country go through the same training, they decide on cases using the same set of guidelines. These guidelines were brought in to make sure that regardless of where you lived you should expect to be given the same sentance.

So, if you are facing a charge of driving with no insurance, the least number of points you can be given is 6, the maximum is 8.

The only thing I will say is fines and costs could be different through the country. CPS costs are different from division to division, in my area court costs are £100, in some other areas they could £40.
southpaw82
That's the general point. It then forces the police to either send a s. 172 notice to the registered keeper or have the officer make a formal ID (which is a pain in the backside).

The downside is that if the officer is not satisfied with your identity he can arrest you. Depends how convincing you are (or not).
Zed Victor One
Long story short, I previously stopped a motorist for 46mph in a 30mph limit, he failed to produce his driving licence, although the car was registered in the name and address that he gave. He refused to accept a FPN so I therefore reported him for summons having given a verbal NIP. A little over a year on with numerous court dates having come and gone where he did not attend but was represented by his solicitor the question of identifying the driver arose.
During this time I had dealt with a countless number of motorists and wasn't in a position to identify him from Adam so the case was dismissed. I try not to make the same mistake twice so ever since then if someone is not in a position to provide positive means of their identification then they will be arrested.
Gaza
Ask William Stobart and Nick Freeman about the advantage of not showing your license at the roadside.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2...89520-17004464/
Naughty1
OK, thanks for that. Its just that I did a google search and it said Cheshire is tougher on speeders than other areas? Not sure if the site had 100's of computer generated pages to get google hits and sell lawyers services.
Naughty1
Has anybody used the Nick Freeman Keepondriving phone advice line? You pay £99 and get a years unlimited telephone advice from one of there advisors? Was considering using it to help write a letter of mitigation, would they help by phone or advise I see a lawyer personally for a higher fee? thanks
Monster 900
QUOTE (Naughty1 @ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 - 01:04) *
OK, thanks for that. Its just that I did a google search and it said Cheshire is tougher on speeders than other areas? Not sure if the site had 100's of computer generated pages to get google hits and sell lawyers services.


Not so sure about Keds' reply. Although what he said should lead to consistent application of the law Magistrates' Courts are well known as being a bit of a "crapshoot" when it comes to the administration of justice.

Last time I went before the Mags the solicitor said "you're lucky, you've got the good bench" implying that consistency, even within one Magistrates' Court, is not guaranteed.
Keds
There should be no crapshoot of justice and there should be no such thing as a good or a bad bench, the reason being the same bench do not always sit together. A magistrate might sit with some one they have never ever sat with or some one they have sat with on occasion. This is to stop magistrates getting to know each other and what they are thinking.

Each case is different, there are different mitigating or aggrevating features, or would you prefer it that if caught speeding, you'd be given a set fine of £1000 and 3 points (if it was a 3 pointer) regardless of what your means were or the mitigating factors. So, there can never so 100% consistency as the cases are never ever always 100% the same. But you should expect to be given 3 points for doing 36 in a 30, where ever you are in the country.

There are new sentencing guidelines which come in force on the 4th of August, which should ensure that decisions across the entire country are even more consistent. These guidelines will also have quite an affect on the fines people will be receiving.
Naughty1
Do you know where we can see these new guidelines online? thanks
Keds
try this...

http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/do...ines_update.pdf
Naughty1
QUOTE (Keds @ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 - 19:13) *


Thats a great find, infact it may deserve a link from this site. Seems they are changing speeding penalties so they can now disqualify at 90mph on the motorway.

thanks again
Keds
you could have been banned doing 91 in a 70 using the old guidelines, there has been no change.

I don't think there have been any fundamental changes of that nature, the new guidelines are easier to read, provide better consistency and some new guidelines have been introduced.
Naughty1
QUOTE (Keds @ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 - 22:16) *
you could have been banned doing 91 in a 70 using the old guidelines, there has been no change.

I don't think there have been any fundamental changes of that nature, the new guidelines are easier to read, provide better consistency and some new guidelines have been introduced.


Any idea how we can see the pull out card for "mitigating circumstances"? thanks
Keds
go to the very last page
Naughty1
This is what I'm facing, at first I thought, I can't have a ban it would look ban on the insurance. However it seems the insurance companies that will insure load about 30% for a banned driver and maybe 20% for 6points.

Now with a 14/28 day ban you still have a clean license (you're back to square one). However, get 6 pts and you have to be really careful, one or two slips due to a well hidden scamera or over zealous policeman and under totting up I'd be looking up to a 1 year ban which would be a real pain in the backside.

Have I overlooked anything? Possibly the ability to rent a hire car/van?
southpaw82
I think you've overlooked the possibility of keeping all your questions to one thread.

A totting up ban is typically 6 months, not 12.
Naughty1
As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm looking at 14/28day ban or 6 pts. I've already called my two insurers, one said categorically that if I was banned they would cancel my policy at 7days notice. The other said that if I were banned they would need more details about the ban before deciding.

I've seen Adrian Flux advertising but they get very mixed reviews on the online review sites. Are there any other specialists for companies that will insure banned drivers that you guys/girls know of?

thanks
Naughty1
Looking at other cases on here, I'm expecting a summons in Nov/Dec but the other half wants to go on holiday then. Whats the situation if you get a summons but will be overseas at the time of the hearing? Obviously I want to attend but wondered how easy it is to get an ajournment?

thanks
nemo
QUOTE (Naughty1 @ Tue, 19 Aug 2008 - 20:44) *
Obviously I want to attend but wondered how easy it is to get an ajournment?

Its very straightforward - simply provide a list of unavailable dates and, within reason, you should find the court accommodating.
The Rookie
My Wifes (modified) car has been 'with' (through as they are a broker) AF's for two years, not had to claim, but very happy to continue, of course as a borker some may have had problems with the insuring company and be blaming AF!

Simon
Naughty1
thanks for the replies,

I have discovered that my employers requires disclosure of quote

"convictions for criminal offences or to provide disclosure within 7 days of offences for which I've been charged."

Now I have read that to be "charged for an offence", you need to have been arrested.

Does a verbal NIP (was a roadside pull) equate to being charged? The Policeman said that papagraph "I'm cautioning you that what ever you say maybe taken in evidence etc etc", does that constitute being arrested? I also wasn't asked to sign that yellow slip of paper.

On another note, the Policeman said "you can drive all day at 80mph and we want stop you". Can they say that as infact he is saying I can break the law and isn't the law absolute?

thanks
southpaw82
QUOTE (Naughty1 @ Sun, 31 Aug 2008 - 01:53) *
Does a verbal NIP (was a roadside pull) equate to being charged? The Policeman said that papagraph "I'm cautioning you that what ever you say maybe taken in evidence etc etc", does that constitute being arrested?


No, if you're being arrested the police officer will say "You're under arrest" or words to that effect.

QUOTE
On another note, the Policeman said "you can drive all day at 80mph and we want stop you". Can they say that as infact he is saying I can break the law and isn't the law absolute?


Of course he can, he's merely telling you how he'd exercise his discretion.
Naughty1
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 31 Aug 2008 - 02:09) *
QUOTE (Naughty1 @ Sun, 31 Aug 2008 - 01:53) *
Does a verbal NIP (was a roadside pull) equate to being charged? The Policeman said that papagraph "I'm cautioning you that what ever you say maybe taken in evidence etc etc", does that constitute being arrested?


No, if you're being arrested the police officer will say "You're under arrest" or words to that effect.

QUOTE
On another note, the Policeman said "you can drive all day at 80mph and we want stop you". Can they say that as infact he is saying I can break the law and isn't the law absolute?


Of course he can, he's merely telling you how he'd exercise his discretion.


When the summons arrives will I be technically charged at that point?

thanks for the quick reply at this ungodly hour!
southpaw82
No, charging takes place at a police station by the charge being read to you by the custody officer and you being given a Form MG4. I believe charging can now be done by post by the CPS but a summons is different.

To avoid future problems with your employer you might want to tell them anyway if you receive a summons.
Naughty1
Well I finally got my summons through for doing an alleged 107mph on the M62. There seem to be some errors/omissions that I'd like to discuss.

Firstly, it only says the Make and reg of my car, doesn't mention the colour or model?

It also appears that the statement given by the Police officer is nicely edited. He forgot to mention that I'd actually slowed down to 70mph well before he had caught me up, he also said the traffic conditions were moderate but then said in another sentence I only overtook several cars over 0.9 mile.(either everybody else was speeding or there weren't that many cars on the road). The incident was on video, however if I want to plead guilty(and therefore the bench not see the video) it will be harder to mitigate as the bench won't know I slowed down before he caught me up and what the traffic conditions were really like. The stretch of the motorway I was on was also 4 lanes wide and there was at least 1 clear lane between me and any traffic.

Any advice would be welcome.

My other thought, whats worse 6 pts or a short ban? They both have their advantages/disadvantages.
Naughty1
Well guys and girls finally had my day in court and pleaded guilty by post before attending in person. Prepared my mitigation using this site and got a very good result. Thanks to all those who replied here.

Offence: average of 107mph on the motorway M62 back in summer , distance 0.9 mile, early evening, clear dry, moderate traffic, passed through junction, overtook several cars, visibility good. Stopped by unmarked Police car, video by Provida.

I got 6 points and £500 fine + £35costs + £15victim support surcharge.

I presented my mitigation as follows;

1- Initial apology for appearing in court

2- Driving history eg clean license, never caught speeding before, never had RTA

3- Offence related eg clear visibility, dry conditions, moderate traffic, empty lane between me and other cars, etc

4- Effect of ban on my family not mself.

5- Character reference from employer.

6- Summary/final apology.

Just to add, I did this myself and in the end with shopping around for insurance I actually saved in my premiums the total cost of the fine. Just need to keep my nose clean for the next 3 years. I also initially called a solicitor who wanted £350 just to read through the summons then a further fee of 1500-5000 for them to represent me. Once I mentioned pleading guilty she changed her tone and exaggerated the possible penalities (claimed I may get a year ban). Just be careful when paying for advice.

ps could a moderator change the title of the thread to "107mph on the motorway with outcome"? thanks
bama
just edit your first post and you can change the strap line.

well done for dodging the bullet.
Naughty1
QUOTE (bama @ Sat, 29 Nov 2008 - 00:45) *
just edit your first post and you can change the strap line.

well done for dodging the bullet.


thanks, for some reason my earlier posts don't have the EDIT button.
Fredd
QUOTE (bama @ Sat, 29 Nov 2008 - 00:45) *
just edit your first post and you can change the strap line.


QUOTE (Naughty1 @ Sat, 29 Nov 2008 - 00:48) *
thanks, for some reason my earlier posts don't have the EDIT button.


BB&G members can edit their posts and titles any time, there's a cut-off time for standard members. I've changed the title as you requested.
Teufel
it varies by insurance company and policy so call and ask

in genreral though at renewal a conviction or a summons yet unheard
would be considered material and should be declared

i have been asked to declare if i was stoipped by police at any time in last 12m once

if in doubt ask
Naughty1
QUOTE (Fredd @ Sat, 29 Nov 2008 - 10:40) *
QUOTE (bama @ Sat, 29 Nov 2008 - 00:45) *
just edit your first post and you can change the strap line.


QUOTE (Naughty1 @ Sat, 29 Nov 2008 - 00:48) *
thanks, for some reason my earlier posts don't have the EDIT button.


BB&G members can edit their posts and titles any time, there's a cut-off time for standard members. I've changed the title as you requested.


Ok, thanks for that. I was best pleased with the fine as I was expecting more after reading the magistrates guidelines.
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