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robdave
A shock.

Came home two days ago to find a letter from the local police station stating "On behalf of the chief constable I hearby require you to furnish within 28 days on the lower part of this forum, the name and address of the driver of the vehicle on the above occasion, as required by section 172 of the road traffic act, 1988. Failure to provide the above information may render you liable to prosecution"

Driving without due care and attention.

The said event I can briefly recall, it was about 8 days ago.

I came off a roundabout and headed up down a 50 road, there was a car in front of me, i drove behind him from what I can remember quite close . We came around a bend further up the road to which he cut the corner, (white section with hashed lines on it) and i think I saw the traffic officer going in the opposite direction with a normal car in front and two behind (i think)... I continued to drive and the guy in front slammed his brakes on a few times yet he was speeding quite a lot. I decided enough was enough and has showed him i was not impressed, i turned around on the round about and continued home to get my card (was on my way to get petrol). On the way back, what i assumne was the same police car drove back past me. I was driving casually at the limit as i do anwyay.

My position is im 19 years old, been driivng over two years and never had any claims, points or convictions in my area (Norfolk). Lived here all my life. I had a passenger in my car at the time, so did the car in front iirc.

Where do I stand? it was late at night and i cant make out how they managed to prosecute me for this? :S :S

Please help me!

Rob.
Pete D
If you tell the police that story you are doomed. If the car in front was exceeding the speed limit he would he left way back but no your on his bumber so you are admitting speeding. Why does exceeding the limit kick up dust ??. probable when you both cut the corner, I suggest you delete the post completely as if the plod read this thread, and they do, and associate this post to the event then you are exposed big time. Pete D
robdave
In some ways I agree Pete, what I wrote earlier was not best worded. I was not speeding from what I can remember. the stretch of road is undergoing roadworks further up, where the driver in front does not stay central or to the side on the lines dust and stones get kicked up.

Thanks for your advice though, im very worried and desperate to know where I stand.

Rob
Teufel
you need to fill in the form - wait till near the end of the period

then see what happens

make now notes of what happened in detail as it could be many months before anything
happens (if anything)
robdave
Ive allready filled in the form and sent it, I feel ive done nothing wrong and dont want to loose anytime on sorting it out.

What do you think the outcome will be, is it just dependant on what they saw/cam across as?

Rob
Teufel
hard to say

the other driver is prob their target making you both witness
and suspect

be prepared for a visit from the police

my advice would be to say nothing until you have received legal advice
roythebus
you haven't been prosecuted yet, only asked to furnish information. Remember in future if you get a s172 notice, reply on day 26!
Pete D
You say "he was speeding quite a lot." yet you were still up his back side. This is self incriminating. Tail gating, cutting corners. "I was driving casually at the limit as i do anwyay." no you do not you were gassing the guy. Sorry but my comments are to assit you not blow you away but it does not read well to a visitor or the BiB. Pete D
robdave
Well they are blowing me away at the moment pal... im having a shit time here, your making it worse.

I just wanted to know where I stand and what I can do

Thanks for the help so far guys.

Why reply on day 26?

Teufel
it delays the process

thye have only 6mo from alleged offence to lay papers to prosecute
robdave
Ahhh I see, I dont feel iv'e done anything massively wrong, driving too close to the person in front maybe picked up but there was nothing dangerous.

I just want an idea of what it is im going to be faced with.
Teufel
its likely the guy in front reported you and the police are then obliged to s172
if so its unlikely much will come of it - your word against his - argy bargy

if it was the polcie car they would have stopped one of you there and then most likely

anyhow driive safe - you never know what nutter is round the next bend
robdave
I think as the officer turned back around on the next roundabout, he maybe confirmed my plate then sent this out. Put two and two together kind of thing.

Do police cars record whats in front of them all the time?

Thanks
jobo
what have they actualy sent you

a Notice of intended prosicution NIP did it arive in 14 days of offence

or just a 172 request

the ones from the police are some times a bit flacky

fill in the NIP wizard then wash and post the doc you have 9 please tell me you kept a copy
robdave
I am unsure on what was sent, the papers are at my home but will check.

It basically said something along the lines as above...

"On behalf of the chief constable I hearby require you to furnish within 28 days on the lower part of this forum, the name and address of the driver of the vehicle on the above occasion, as required by section 172 of the road traffic act, 1988. Failure to provide the above information may render you liable to prosecution"

It was with a little slip att he bottom for me to confirm that I was the driver at the time, and the address is correct etc...

Nothing else was stated, no evidence, pictures, details... I prosume I await for them to send them to me after confirming it is me?
robdave
it just had road details, times etc...
JPM1
As a guess ( being an ex copper myself) from the information you've provided, it sounds like the driver you were following has reported you. In all probability the old bill tugged him and he gave his reason for speeding as you following him so closely! To demonstrate without due care they have to show that your driving fell far below the standard of a reasonable (normal???) driver. If it is just for crossing the white lines (providing they are not solid) you do not automatically drive without due care. Take the advice of some of the posts. Make notes (including your mates who were in the car) and use all the time these notices give you!!! Most of the time the clock will be your best defence lawyer.
jobo
hi mate what i need to know is where have you got the due care from did it say that they were considering prosicution for due care, if it did is was prob an NIP as well as a 172 request

some times with due care if they have little evidence they invite you in to see if your daft enough to admit to it. you description at the top of the post would just about do for you

do not go if asked it will do no good and could do a lot of harm

as i said fill in the wizard and see what we can do to help
robdave
yeah it said on it for due care... I prosume this is a NIP 172?

Do the traffic cars record all the time fron the front/rear?

Thanks for your advice guys.
JPM1
Yes is the short answer to that depending on the type of car it is. It is standard operating proceedure to have the kit running all the time if it's fitted in the car.
jobo
no they dont,( as it records all their wrong doings as well)

at least not when the evidence could be usefull to you
JPM1
Actually just to re itterate what Jobo said. If they feel their evidence is a bit thin, they might go on a fishing expedition to see what they can get from you. Becareful and use all the expertise on this site first!
robdave
I would have thought recordings would not be in place, due to it being late on at night and visibility poor, it is on a relatively calm peice of road with no pedestrians/houses.
robdave
Thanks guys, I really do hope its a case of that guy blaming it on me and reporting it... if i were doing so wrong there is places on the road where the officer could have spun around and flashed the blue lights.

How long does it roughly take for the next steps after sending my NIP 172 back?

JPM1
Unfortunately if it is a traffic car and it has the video/provida system fitted you have to have it running. As well as you vehicle checks before you take the car out, you have to check the system is running correctly and place in fresh tapes before you leave the garage. A friend of a friend came a cropper to this as they inadvertantly recorded a shooting as they drove past a shop. When the powers that be went through the tape of their shift to glean evidence they were less than impressed by some of the comments these officers made about other drivers and sacked them!! Oops.
jobo
hi JPM

it may be standard operating procedure but in my experiance they dont have it on unless in a chase, as i tried to get a copy from a range rover which stoped me

as it shows all the exceeding limits with no good reason tail gating they do and all that parking outside kebab houses which goes on

and ive never heared of one recording backwards, that is from the rear

if your close to the car in front i dont see how they could film you going in the other direction

if they turned round came after you and got near enough to get you number they would have pulled you at the time

was it definetly a traffic car
JPM1
Depends what they've got. If their fishing expect something fairly quickly and fairly unusual...like an invite for an interview or inviting you just to accept the offence ( and we wont take you to Court!!). If not it could take months. Depends how efficient they are.
robdave
Those were my thoughts...

Being late at night and surrounded by normal cars I would have thought filming to be useless with cars in front of them and behind. In ways it may be good to have but i doubt the old bill would show it if I were clearly driving to an appororiate limit.

I am 99.9% sure, as said, as I returned home off the roundabout what looked to be the same car was in the opposit direction, to which i assume he got the guy in front of me at the lights.

I am just bemused, as surely if they saw me coming back the opposite direction and thought I was a danger they would have turned around and pulled me over.
JPM1
Hi Jobo, how are you?

The problem with turning it off and on is that it looks like you have edited the tape and so most tapes would be inadmissable in court. Trust me if it's there it's running. The cameras in car the car routinely face forward and backward. The forward facing one can be move to point in any direction you want, unless ANPR is routed through it as it sends the system a bit squiffy if you move it about (something to do with the targetting system)
JPM1
If you want a cynics view of your actions it could be construed that what you had done was actually take avoiding action of them. In surveillance terms it call a recip ad is designed to throw followers of your trail or identify them.
robdave
I hate feeling this way! Its because I feel my driving was not dangerous, in others eyes it may come accross that way.

Im so worried,

How long does it take usually for anything to come through?

JPM1
Robdave, I know it's difficult but reat assured you have done the right thing. They now have all the information they have requested so you have complied with the law. The ball is back in their court now. All you can do is wait and see. It can literally take months.
robdave
Is there potential for the next letter just to say there is no strong evidence to support the claims made and drop the case?

I hope it doesnt take months, I dont know whether to let my parents know or not as I am still living with them.
JPM1
There is that possibility, I would let your parents know as the last way you want them finding out is to have s copper knocking on their door on morning to 'ask you a few questions'
JPM1
I must apologise but i've noticed my keeyboard keeps dropping letters from stuff i send, so if it looks a bit odd thats why. Cheap computers!
jobo
hi jmp

hope your right as there have been multiple cases on here of posters being tailgated by mostly plain cars in order to provoke them into going faster, or where the police have denied that any vidio was in operation at the time.

in my case they pullled me with a fully marked up range rover over a dangly bumper and took pics with a didgital camera coz the vid wasnt working

how do i show that it was fitted to any particular vehicle

where does it say this in the ploice proceedures have you got a copy

to the op

calm down a bit we need more info before panic sets in
do the nip wiz when you get home and post the letter you recived on the site.


they have to lay the evidence with the court in 6 months so its a waiting game

, if the charge eminates from ano and not the police they will need to get in touch with you

if its the police then it may just be a summons in a few months time
JPM1
Jobo unfortunately I dont have. You could approach the force under the freedom of information act to see if that vehicle has video fitted. I know where i came from if the vid wasn't working you either had to take the car off the road or get the garage sgts permission to take it out and a not would be made in the log book about the defect.
robdave
Thanks for all your help guys, its the waiting that is the hurting part. Not knowing whats going to happen? Can I not call the police and ask them what the situation is?

What will heppen next, a statement from the police of why I have recieved the letter?
JPM1
No absolutely do not contact them unless they send you another legal form. There is a slight chance that this will just get forgotten about and go away. Contacting them may prompt them into action.

The waiting is the horrible bit, but it has to be done. The longer you wait the better it looks. This will either go one of two ways. You will either hear nothing and put it down to experience or you will get a summons from them.
robdave
If for example they make a statement to show I was, what is the likely outcome?

3-9 points on my liscense? It makes me feel sick thinking about it
JPM1
When it gets that far, then seek legal advice. You should be provided with a copy of their statements and told if there is any video evidence. Speculating on a likely outcome will do you no good at all. As my hari kari instructor used to say to me ' We'll jump off that bridge when we come to it!'. Remember they have to prove their case.
robdave
Fingers crossed all will be okay. My thoughts are they have collared the other guy and hes pointed them in my direction, they have seen me behind him and following up the lead...

Soon will be revealed I guess.
Zed Victor One
QUOTE (robdave @ Wed, 21 May 2008 - 16:59) *
If for example they make a statement to show I was, what is the likely outcome?

3-9 points on my liscense? It makes me feel sick thinking about it



This may all be new to you but it's a minor matter in the eyes of the police so I should stop worrying and speculating as to what may or may not happen. As and when you receive any further communication then post on here again and I'm sure you'll receive some sound advice.
For what it's worth it's difficult to prove a careless driving when it's one persons word agaist another unless there is further evidence, i.e. a collision has occurred and the pioint of impact is clearly on one side of the carriageway or there is an independent witness.

Don't panic yet..............
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