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dickybom
Hi all
I have recently received an N.I.P. for failing to comply with a traffic signal at the (lights) on the A240 Bradford Drive, West Ewell, Surrey. The incident was recorded on a Red light camera. I wish to question the validaty of this incident as I do not believe It was safe to stop with the time allowed by the amberlight which is illuminated for 3 seconds before turning red. The road concerned has a 40mph limit and I have caculated it would have taken me 4.7 seconds to stop. Ofcourse at the time I had to make the call and I decided to keep going so my speed has been recorded at 35mph. I am interested to find how these camera,s are calibrated,I have read the chief police officers guidelines and found the information vague. If I requested evidence would they just send me pictures or would the information on triggering be included. This is not just sour grapes as two weeks later I approached the same lights, this time I,m anticipating as I approach thinking its not gonna happen to me again. Sure enough as I get close the lights turn amber, I brake real hard and I still end up a good 10 feet over the line before stopping. When I returned to time the amber lights I must have seen at least 4 out of 10 cycles where the driver has had to brake real hard to stop. These lights and the timings here are dangerous enough but with the threat of points and fines hanging over every driver who fails to comply its not going to be long before someone is seriously injured. How do I proceed ? My job by the way, a driving instructor !
DW190
QUOTE
My job by the way, a driving instructor !


You should study for Examiner they are crying out for them.

As far as the lights go you could ask for photos but I dont think they will help. Only prove that you crossed the line on Red and continued through the junction.

If the NIP has been served correctly and you know it was you driving you could go down either of the Right to Silence or the Pace Witness Statement route.

Every picture I've seen from a trafic light camera show conclusively that the lights were on red and from what you say you seem to agree they were.

Its up to you. Fight the Good Fight With All Thy Might.
Sordid Zombie
QUOTE (dickybom)
My job by the way, a driving instructor !


Practice what you preach. What happened to your anticipation? icon_redface.gif

Failing to stop is an absolute offence - and they have you on camera!. Unless you have lots of money to spare and wish to fight this to the bitter end at the highest court - then you have very slim chance of getting anywhere.

Although I sympathise with what you're saying, stopping before a red light at 40mph is not too difficult. And where there is a camera - you should be more careful.

The only time people actually find themselves emergency braking for a red light, is when they've actually already made up their minds about beating the light before it goes red and then thinking 'OH SHIT!'
dickybom
Yeah I understand but there must be say a difference in traffic light timmings for roads that are a 40 as opposed 30. Surely the amber has to be on longer or the camera set to trigger later. Who decides this. the highways commission or the police and who regulates it. It states in the highway code that amber means stop if you can safely do so behind the line. Are all amber lights set at 3 secs whatever the speed limit ? May be this did not matter when it was left to the motorist to decide, but there is going to be a lot more of these cameras on the roads.
Mudster
Amber is on for three seconds in any speed limit. This is the Department for Transport rules.

At 40mph you travel 176 feet in the 3 seconds the amber is showing (hope the maths is right!! biggrin.gif ).

I'm sure the Highway Code overall stopping distance is less than that (ie thinking distance and stopping distance). 120 feet rings a bell.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, as I'm sure they will quote this if you try to say there wasn't enough distance to stop.
Clear Skies
QUOTE (dickybom)
Yeah I understand but there must be say a difference in traffic light timmings for roads that are a 40 as opposed 30. Surely the amber has to be on longer or the camera set to trigger later. Who decides this. the highways commission or the police and who regulates it. It states in the highway code that amber means stop if you can safely do so behind the line. Are all amber lights set at 3 secs whatever the speed limit ? May be this did not matter when it was left to the motorist to decide, but there is going to be a lot more of these cameras on the roads.


I am 100 percent with dicky on this..

We have a dual 40 , about 10 miles long, very heavily armed with speed cams. I always travel on it (8 times a year) with the cruise control set. Foot over the brake pad , and more often than not , I have to do an emergency stop at some point. On one occasion a couple of years ago, I had to take my foot off and roll over and was flashed , (no fine) or have a lorry up my tail pipe .


I wrote to the police authority, suggesting they at least make the red lights cam (which I am in favour of ) fair, their reply is , U get three seconds that's the rule .. and in a 30 mph zone thats x amount of feet.

I write and tell them its a 40, and the county also has red light cams on
50 and 60 and 70 mph roads. Why not make them fair , or change the rules and make them 4 or 5 seconds on amber ??? To which there is no reply..

To my mind, these red light cams at 3 seconds on amber in a 40 plus zone are quite unjust, but how to fight them ... I dont know other than the lobby method.

May be unjust, but they dont give a fig, and that puts even more people on our side ! When will they ever learn ?


rgds
bill
Monster
If you can’t stop for a red light after having three seconds warning + should be anticipating the change then what hope has little Johnny when he runs out in front of you ?

People who jump red lights are high low on my list of bad drivers. They would rather risk a collision than wait for a few seconds.

It could be you coming from the left on green that is hit by these pr#ts.
DW190
Nice to hear from you again Monster.

Have you commented on that video somewhere and I missed it?
firefly
QUOTE (DW190)
Nice to hear from you again Monster.

Have you commented on that video somewhere and I missed it?

I missed it too! Hi Monster.

I was at The General's house the other night and saw the video. Absolutely unbelievable. I bet you won't see that on Traffic Cops on BBC1..... icon_redface.gif

123mph on a rural single carriageway? Shameful.
cjm99
Not wishing to appear duplicitous, but I have little time for people who jump red lights, they truly are dangerous.
kevinday
QUOTE (cjm99)
Not wishing to appear duplicitous, but I have little time for people who jump red lights, they truly are dangerous.


Indeed they are, to claim you cannot stop from 40 in under 3 seconds is ridiculous, 2.5 should be sufficient, and a distance of 20-25 metres. At 40 mph you are travelling at 17.78 metres per second, therefore in 3 seconds you would cover over 50 metres therefore you could stop. In the wet add some, but 4.7 seconds, what were you driving, a Ford Anglia?
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