NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - April 2008
Date of the NIP: - 38 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 39 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A74(M) Glasgow - Carlsile Road, southbound arriageway near to north overbridge, Junction 19, Ecclefechan
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Following the flow of traffic, on a clear day - bright sky's & sunny. Didn't noticed a van on a bridge in passing - wasn't concerned as I wasn't travelling at an inappropriate speed for the conditions or speed limit

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to consider completing the form, but returning it unsigned. By doing so there is a risk that you will be convicted under s172, which would attract 6 penalty points and a fine; in most cases this is likely to exceed the penalty for the speeding offence itself.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:57:27 +0100

As the wizard says, unsigned is the advised way to go in Scotland, so you (or preferably someone else who will then write and sign a letter FOR YOU – which you keep - saying they filled it in) fill in all the details and return it unsigned.

Two things to be aware of:-
1/ They will call out your local plod to try and serve a verbal S172 request on you, if they do this you have to tell them, so you need to avoid them, be not in, and not return their requests for you to call, if you are in England then its worth asking the plod (if cornered) if they are authorised to serve this request for this Scottish constabulary, if they can't answer yes (even though they almost certainly are!) then you do not have to answer (any requestor has to be authorised by a chief of Police)
2/ There is no case law (In Scotland) that says the S172 response has to be signed, at some point the PF's offices may decide to go for a test case to set case law, in which case the penalty (if it succeeds) is 6 points and a circa £300 fine, my opinion is that until they see 'too many' unsigned they won't try for a test case as it will create publicity telling people about the 'loophole', but I think it will happen eventually.
Simon

Thanks rookie,

Just to be clear on this:

I am to send the NIP reminder completed to the Camera Unit - but without my signature.
I have drafted a letter very similar to a chap on here who had the assistnce of the RAC - I am going to send this letter with the NIP - I presume I am ok to send this along with the NIP reminder? What happens next?


One question to put out there there though - as I never recieved the original NIP, and my first awarenes of this was 40 days after the alleged offence - that is clearly outside the 14 day notification rule. Is the responsibility there for them to prove they sent it to me?

I Have noticed on a number of postings that advice has been given to return a NIP unsigned.
Why?
What are the benefit?
What are the risk?
What are the consequences?

I think that you misunderstand the 14 day rule.
D&G are the only force in the U.K. to routinely issue the first NIP in the chain by recorded delivery.
If they have done so, it doesn't matter if you didn't receive it, it is deemed to have been served.
It seems that in Scotland, unlike in England & Wales, you have to prove that they didn't.

So if they did indeed serve the initial NIP - then they will have proof of postage/notification as they will have a reciept from the special delivery. Ergo - no Special delivery receipt - no proof of postage - 14 day rule not enforceable?

Can I ask for proof of this special delivery?

Have you recently moved or bought the car, if the DVLA details are not upto date, then teh 14 day rule does not apply anyway....

You could demand that proof if it gets to court, but if you go unsigned and don't get 'cornered' for a verbal NIP it won't get to court anyway! Without a signature on the S172 responce, there is no valid proof of driver, and therefore they should not (and history supports this) prosecute you. Search the case files forum for unsigned successes!

Simon

Case closure


I decided to sign the NIP & return it with a letter very similar to the RAC letter. I work with Police on a daily basis so dodging them for 5 months wasn't really an option for me. If anyone wants a copy of the letter - let me know and I will copy/paste it in here

Got a letter stating £60 & 3 points. For 92 in a 70 (motorway) I am happy with that....

Thanks for all the advice & examples of everyone who offered support.

Cheers

Chris

95 is the top limit for an FP in a 70, in otherwords you got the same punishment as everyone else would have done....if your happy with that, then fair play...

Simon