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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
bingobongo
Hi guys,

My wife and I parked a car on what appeared to be standard parking bays in Bournemouth. I had a good look around for parking restriction signs before we left, but were unable to find any so assumed it was ok to leave the car there - we were only gone for all of 15 minutes anyway.

When we returned our car was clamped. When we rang the number we were given, we were alerted to small signs on the walls of property, above our line of sight, that said 'Private Property' and appeared to be pertaining to the buildings rather than the parking bays. On closer inspection the signs did say in smaller print that parking there was liable to clamping and a fine of £120 to have the clamp removed. Unfortunatly we had to pay this.

I'm now hoping to try to retrieve this fee by threatening to take the clamping firm to the small claims court - with my primary argument being that signage was unclear. Does anyone on here have experience of the procedure for doing this? Is there anywhere written in law regarding signage that I can quote in my letter to the clamping firm?

Thanks very much
Alexis
Did you pay by credit card? If so, contact your bank and demand it to be cancelled under the Consumer Credit Act 1974: http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/guides_to/cr...liability.shtml

If you need to go to small claims, the case law for this is Vine v Waltham Forest: http://www.thepeoplesnocampaign.co.uk/data...=403&loc=no

Even so, if the sign mentions a fine then it is completely unlawful anyway.

Do you know the details of the landowner? If the clamping firm winds down before your court action, then you'll have nobody to go after. Sueing the landowner too is a way to get around this.
bingobongo
Unfortunately I did not pay by credit card - although this payment option was given on the sign, the clamper did not allow us this option to make our payment. Also, I have not yet been able to get details of the landowner - the clamping firm said that this information was confidential.

I am going to write something to the clamping firm along the lines of the following, any comments, suggestions would be greatly appreciated:



Request for repayment of clamping charge


Dear Sir/Madam,




On [date] a clamp was placed on our car [registration] which was parked by St Peter's Road in Bournemouth town centre.


I am writing to ask you to refund to me the £120.00 that I had to pay to have the car released from this clamp.


Signage marking that the area in which the car was clamped was private property was far from prominent and was not seen by myself or my wife, even though we looked around the area to check for parking restriction signage. Case law settles that an appellant who had not seen signs warning about clamping could not be held to have consented to, or voluntarily assumed the risk of his car being clamped (Marina Helen Vine v Waltham Forest London Borough Council (2000)). Furthermore, I have not entered into any contractual agreement with the land owner to pay any parking charges.

From Marina Helen Vine v Waltham Forest London Borough Council (2000): "The act of clamping the wheel of another person's car, even when that car is trespassing, is an act of trespass to that other persons property unless it can be shown that the owner of the car has consented to, or willingly assumed, the risk of his car being clamped. To show that the car owner consented or willingly assumed the risk of his car being clamped, it has to be established that the car owner was aware of the consequences of his parking his car so that it trespassed on the land of another."

I deny entering into any contractual agreement with yourself or the land owner. Even if a contractual agreement were found between ourselves (which is denied), no direct, quantifiable loss has been suffered by the claimant, hence the amount recoverable under contract law, as damages, would be zero.
I will give you 14 days to reply to me, letting me know a date by which I will receive full payment of £120.00.

If you dispute that I am entitled to a refund of this charge, or do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect.


After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a court claim at the expiry of the second deadline.






Alexis
You'll have to find the landowner from the Land Registry. It's not 'classified information' - they just don't want to tell you. These people are crooks after all.

No point beating about the bush with your letter - be firm:



QUOTE
NOTICE OF INTENDED COURT PROCEEDINGS


Dear Sir/Madam,



On [date] a clamp was placed on our car [registration] which was parked by St Peter's Road in Bournemouth town centre.


I am writing to demand payment of the sum of £120.00 which I was forced to pay under duress in order have the car released from this clamp.


Signage marking that the area in which the car was clamped was private property was far from prominent and was not seen by myself or my wife, even though we looked around the area to check for parking restriction signage. Case law settles that an appellant who had not seen signs warning about clamping could not be held to have consented to, or voluntarily assumed the risk of his car being clamped (Marina Helen Vine v Waltham Forest London Borough Council (2000)). Furthermore, I have not entered into any contractual agreement with the land owner to pay any parking charges.

From Marina Helen Vine v Waltham Forest London Borough Council (2000): "The act of clamping the wheel of another person's car, even when that car is trespassing, is an act of trespass to that other persons property unless it can be shown that the owner of the car has consented to, or willingly assumed, the risk of his car being clamped. To show that the car owner consented or willingly assumed the risk of his car being clamped, it has to be established that the car owner was aware of the consequences of his parking his car so that it trespassed on the land of another."

I deny entering into any contractual agreement with yourself or the land owner. Even if a contractual agreement were found between ourselves (which is denied), no direct, quantifiable loss has been suffered by the claimant, hence the amount recoverable under contract law, as damages, would be zero.

Unless full payment of £120.00 is made to the above address within seven days, Legal Action to recover the debt will be taken against you without further notice. Should you respond to this letter within the next 7 days, I also request your SIA Registration Number. As you will be aware, it is an offence to operate a clamping business without one.

Teufel
make sure you say you paid under duress and that u said so at the time

did u get a receipt ? sia licence no ?

if not sia licence then it is a crime
whitewing
QUOTE (bingobongo @ Mon, 12 May 2008 - 17:20) *
If you dispute that I am entitled to a refund of this charge, or do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect.


This IS the letter before action - no need for another one, or to wait another 14 days before issuing court proceedings - just put 'Letter Before Action' at the top.
Teufel
definitely add the land owner as a joint defendant

your tort of trespass (which the clamping aims to defend agaisnt) is on them not
the clamper

i actually think it is unlawful for a person agaisnt whom there is no tort to clamp
unless they are the landowners agents - if they are agent and dont tell you then
thye are in breach of all sorts of things
HSHAHID
Hi,
I got myself in the same situation today. Parked my car on a street where there were no parking signs. Came back only to find my car clamped and the somebody pointed me to notices on lamp posts which were neither clear nor very readable. I took pictures of the notices in case I can use them in court.

I had to pay them £125 to unclamp it but i have paid by Credit Card but I want to dispute the payment now.
Have someone in this forum got any experience of disputing the payment. Would I have to pay more in the end if my appeal is rejected.

Please if any one can share any experience it would be really useful. I feel ripped off my hard earned money by thugs
dave-o
QUOTE (HSHAHID @ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 - 15:59) *
Hi,
I got myself in the same situation today. Parked my car on a street where there were no parking signs. Came back only to find my car clamped and the somebody pointed me to notices on lamp posts which were neither clear nor very readable. I took pictures of the notices in case I can use them in court.

I had to pay them £125 to unclamp it but i have paid by Credit Card but I want to dispute the payment now.
Have someone in this forum got any experience of disputing the payment. Would I have to pay more in the end if my appeal is rejected.

Please if any one can share any experience it would be really useful. I feel ripped off my hard earned money by thugs


The advice to you would be exactly the same as to the starter of this thread.

If you want personal advice, start a thread of your own.
HSHAHID
Thanks mate.
I will start a new threat as well.
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