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oddjob
Can some1 please tell me if loading bays sould have road markings as well as a sign to let ppl know they exict in a certain place,or is it legal for the council to just have a sign to let ppl know where they are.

What is the legal requirements for a loading bay?
clark_kent
The writing is not a legal requirement only the 'loading only' sign needs to be in place for the bay to be legal.
oddjob
I found this http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/parking.htm#loadingbays

It says loading bays must have "loading bay" written on the road as well as on the sign.

Please could some1 who is 100% right help me out on this,am i right in thinking a loading bay is illegal if it doesn't have it written on the road as stated in the above link.
Neil B
I think you've generated some confusion here.

Although you mentioned "bay" in your original post I'm not sure what is being debated here. Are you talking about a specific segment of the road applying to something or a particular length of highway?

If the latter then Clarke is probably right but unsure if the case was that a specific "bay" was marked out. You seemed to talk about a specific place but gave no explanation of how you, yourself have defined that specific place?

Presumably this is in relation to a PCN or FPN?
clark_kent
QUOTE (oddjob @ Mon, 5 May 2008 - 21:04) *
I found this http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/parking.htm#loadingbays

It says loading bays must have "loading bay" written on the road as well as on the sign.

Please could some1 who is 100% right help me out on this,am i right in thinking a loading bay is illegal if it doesn't have it written on the road as stated in the above link.




http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/023113bj.gif permitted variants ...disabled may be OMITTED or VARIED to say buses, loading etc.
Neil B
You're missing the point Clark: You are still assuming it to be a 'bay' as that was the word the OP used to describe it - but he/she didn't, in fact, make it clear what they were talking about.

It probably doesn't help that the matter concerns 'loading' and you've just posted up a link to diagrams/regs for 'disabled' bays?
Neil B
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Mon, 5 May 2008 - 22:36) *
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/023113bj.gif permitted variants ...disabled may be OMITTED or VARIED to say buses, loading etc.


That one?

It does not say as you quote it. It actually says>> "Disabled may be omitted or varied to: ---etc."

The full colon clearly indicates only 'disabled' may be omitted, surely?
oddjob
What i mean is,i got a parking ticket off the police for parking in a loading bay,it didn't have "loading bay" painted on the road to state it was a loading bay otherwise i wouldn't have parked there.

I got this £30 ticket in august 2006 and tried to pay it over weekly payments as im on benefits but i was refused.I went to court for not paying the ticket and they added £15 ontop for not paying it outright.

The courts comitted "abuse of process" (CPS rule.All evidence relating to a offence should be served 7 days before a trial so defendant as time to do his/her defence) as they had no defence when i asked for police officers statement to back this ticket up.
I have still not paid this ticket which as gone upto £245 (bailiff fees added) and now they will accept installment.

I got a letter on staurday summoning me to go to court on 9/05/08 stating i owe £45 instead of the £245.

I have letters to prove that i constantly ask for the police officers statement to back up this illegal parking before i went to court but i have never received it.

Any help would be appreciated.
Neil B
Sorry to hear of your situation mate.

I'm not being rude but again I have to say I still don't understand. You still haven't explained (sorry if I'm dumb) what was marked on the road? Why do you keep referring to "bay"?
clark_kent
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 5 May 2008 - 23:23) *
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Mon, 5 May 2008 - 22:36) *
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/023113bj.gif permitted variants ...disabled may be OMITTED or VARIED to say buses, loading etc.


That one?

It does not say as you quote it. It actually says>> "Disabled may be omitted or varied to: ---etc."

The full colon clearly indicates only 'disabled' may be omitted, surely?



The same style of bay is used for both Blue badges and loading, if you omit Disabled but don't vary it what is on the road....nothing! It does not say if you omit Disabled you MUST vary it. If a bay was loading in the early morning and pay and display the rest of the day placing 'loading only' on the floor would make it non compliant.
oddjob
Sorry my fault im not with it at all,i mean loading only.
Neil B
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Tue, 6 May 2008 - 18:45) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 5 May 2008 - 23:23) *
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Mon, 5 May 2008 - 22:36) *
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/023113bj.gif permitted variants ...disabled may be OMITTED or VARIED to say buses, loading etc.


That one?

It does not say as you quote it. It actually says>> "Disabled may be omitted or varied to: ---etc."

The full colon clearly indicates only 'disabled' may be omitted, surely?



The same style of bay is used for both Blue badges and loading, if you omit Disabled but don't vary it what is on the road....nothing! It does not say if you omit Disabled you MUST vary it. If a bay was loading in the early morning and pay and display the rest of the day placing 'loading only' on the floor would make it non compliant.


The reason I'm still not convinced Clark is that the link you have given clearly says (under the No. 1028.3) that it relates to disabled bays. You may well be right that the same diagrams apply to loading bays - Sch 6 may well say that somewhere - but you have chosen not to reference that?

It may not matter because I am still bemused by the original poster's latest answer - which again doesn't address the issue I raised about what circumstance we are actually talking about - the original description of "bay" and what was or wasn't marked on the road, if anything?

At this point I feel I may be construed as obstructing the issue. I shall withdraw for now and hope someone else steps in to help.
oddjob
So should there be "loading only" marked on the road for the parking ticket to be enforced/legal.

The link below states that it must have "loading only" written on the road as well as the sign.

http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/parking.htm#loadingbays

So if there isn't any road markings or "loading only" written on the road can't the ticket be enforced,is it illegal.

This is very urgent,please can anyone tell me if i am 100% right because i want to show this as evidence to the courts when i attend tomorrow that they cannot get away with fining ppl illegally when they do not use the right TSRGD to enforce these tickets.
bama
ticketfighter page gives you the TSRGD references. are planning to use them ?
Neil B
I have to jump back in here to apologise because I think I may have confused the situation. What I didn't understand is the bits in your original post that I've bolded up below>>

QUOTE (oddjob @ Sun, 4 May 2008 - 16:12) *
Can some1 please tell me if loading bays sould have road markings as well as a sign to let ppl know they exict in a certain place,or is it legal for the council to just have a sign to let ppl know where they are.

What is the legal requirements for a loading bay?


That made me think you might be talking about a stretch of road (if a 'bay' then the "certain place" is a box on the road). I now think you are probably talking about the latter but I'm still not sure.

I have to say that I'm sorry but I do not know and hope someone else helps.

I am also unsure if Clark_kent is right or not: The wording of the diagram he linked to raised some doubts for me - but he may still be right.

Where clark certainly does have a point is that it can't say 'loading' on the road if it is available for other use for part of the day or certain days,etc. You haven't told us what the sign or signs said?
It might help if you can get pictures of the site and the signs and post them up on here and people will be able to spot anything that is non-compliant.



oddjob
Here is a pic of the sign.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r297/bl...lt/P1010327.jpg
oddjob
Neil B,the sign is posted in post 16,hope it helps.
Neil B
Yes I saw it.

I hoped others, who know more, would chip in with a comment > i.e. something wrong with the sign, etc.

Still very difficult to offer any comment when I still don't understand where exactly you parked - what time, etc. No pictures of the site.

Sorry I can't say what you want to hear.

oddjob
I was parked in the loading bay with disabled badge on view,there was no road marking at all on the road non at all just this sign.

Please can any1 help me as im in court at 2pm tomorrow.
oddjob
Could anyone tell me if the sign is wrong in post 16 as Neil b thinks there is.
Neil B
QUOTE (oddjob @ Fri, 9 May 2008 - 12:37) *
Could anyone tell me if the sign is wrong in post 16 as Neil b thinks there is.


At no point have I said that! - and that sums up a problem there has been throughout this thread - communication

I have repeatedly tried to get you to describe or display the circumstances in which you parked. You seem to misunderstand every question I ask.
Right up to now I still can't say I understand. At no point in this thread have I actually given you any advice.

I hoped others might comment because some are very knowledgable and helpful: I can now understand why that has not been the case: I've certainly learnt a lesson from this.

Sorry to hear about your situation and wish you well.
oddjob
With respect Neil b,what did u mean then when u said "somethings wrong with the sign"

Anyway i won the case as the fine was remitted.
Neil B
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 8 May 2008 - 19:34) *
I hoped others, who know more, would chip in with a comment > i.e. something wrong with the sign, etc.


This is what I actually said. It does not in any way say that I think there is anything wrong with the sign. If you don't understand that then it just underlines my point about communication.

Anyway, congratulations on winning your case.
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