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zilzal99
Hi, I was on an unsigned road in Glasgow and had just come off a roundabout and was on a straight. It was 10.35pm and as I passsed a van the driver flashed so I slowed momentarily only to find that a couple of hundred yeards up the road hiding behind a large white transit were two police officers with a Pro Laser III gun. Of course I stopped and was told that I had been clocked doing 61mph in a 30mph zone. I was totally shocked as I could not believe I was driving that fast but remembered from friends that you 'never argure with a policeman' so accepted the caution and am now due in court later this month.

Based on the 30mph speed limit, I was definitely speeding and would not contest that although I am gutted that they were hiding, it was so late at night and it was not a residential street etc. What I find it hard to believe is the speed, does anyone know how reliable these are and if I am entitled to ask them to prove that it had been calibrated etc and if so how do I go about it?

It is crucial because at double the speed I think an automatic ban is seriously considered and as I have a job which requires me to travel this could be disastrous.......

Any help or advice woudl be gratefully appreciated

Thanks

D
jobo
you need to do the nip wizard

can you expand on what unsigned road means, ie no speed limit signs, or just no signs was there a system of streey light no more than 200 m apart
The Rookie
Read the "read this first before posting" sticky, and complete the NIP wizard, having the output added to this thread please.

The PLIII is accurate enough, without a video it will be almost impossible to prove it wasn't, asking for cal certs etc is possible, but will probably be a waste of time.

Was the place you were caught in an area of street lighting (less than 200 yards apart) or did it have 30 repeaters? Your best defence would be if you could show the 30 limit wasn't enforceable.

Simon
zilzal99
Hi please see the output from the NIP wizard

Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

I never received a notice of intended prosecution just a citation to attend court.

The road did have lights which were less than 200m apart if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance again for your help

D
zilzal99
Jobo, when I say unsigned I mean that I came onto it from a roundabout and there was no indication that it was a 30mph zone (no signage) and nothing until the end of the road when the speed limit changes to the national speed limit sign.

Hope that clarifies

Thanks

David
jobo
what we are trying to do is get a mental picture of where you were.

there a chance that the 30 is wrong, though the presence of the street light makes this less likly

what was the speed limit before the round about, did this have street lights, please give us some info

also expand on the arrival of the NIP

why was it late have you just moved house
change car

how late was it or it if never came

did you get a reminder or anything
zilzal99
Ok

The road before the roundabout was a 30mph zone with street lamps less than 200m apart, it was 10.30pm and the road conditions were very good and traffic almost non-existent. I took the roundabout which I think had no lights then onto the main road which had street lights which were closer than 200m apart, I drove up the main road and about 30 yards up I was flashed by a guy in a van travelling in the opposite direction. As you do I braked but kept going until I spotted the Police hiding behind a van about 200 yards away. As I passed them I realised that it was a speed trap, stopped and reversed back to them.

This was when they showed me the display on the LaserPro II which showed 61mph, told me that it was above the limit for a Fixed Penalty Notice, cautioned me and advised that the court would be in touch. they also said that they would not report it as dangerous driving due to the time of night and the lack of traffic.

The date the alleged offence took place was 9 March 2008 and the notice of intended prosecution (Citation) arrived on 28 April 2008. Apparently this is well within the 6 months they have to serve this notice.

Hope this helps

Cheers

David



The Rookie
In that case the 30 limit is as it should be, 30 repeaters are specifically NOT allowed on a restricted road, you knew you were in a 30 limit and hadn't passed an exit signs, therefore the limit was still 30.

Telling you you were going to court was the verbal NIP - no need for the paper variety.

Simon
zilzal99
Thanks Simon - accepted that I am going to court and accepted that I was driving in excess of 30mph - what I would like to know though is how can I get proof that the Pro Laser III was correctly calibrated because I genuinely cannot believe that I was going at 61mph having just exited a roundabout - Do I write to the Police ?

Any help or advice appreciated on this and how best to deal with the matter (i.e. letter of mitigation, defend myself etc) in order to minimise the possibility that a ban is imposed as this would have serious implications on my employment.

Thanks in advance

D
zilzal99
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2008
Date of the NIP: - 46 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 49 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A810 Glasgow
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was driving along the A810 in Glasgow just after 10.30pm and had just come off a roundabout and was on the straight. There were no speed limit signs but as I was driving along I passed a white van going the opposite way which flashed so I slowed momentarily only to find that a couple of hundred yards up the road obscured behind a large white transit were two police officers with a Pro Laser III gun. Of course I stopped and was told that I had been clocked doing 61mph in a 30mph zone. I was totally shocked as I could not believe I was driving that fast but remembered from friends that you 'never argue with a policeman' so accepted the caution and am now due in court later this month. I have now received my citation to attend court later this month.

Based on the 30mph speed limit, I was definitely speeding and would not contest that although I am gutted that they were hiding, it was so late at night and it was not a residential street etc. What I find it hard to believe is the speed, does anyone know how reliable these are and if I am entitled to ask them to prove that it had been calibrated etc and if so how do I go about it?

It is crucial because at double the speed I think an automatic ban is seriously considered and as I have a job which requires me to travel this could be disastrous.......

Just looked at the citation which has the summary evidence and the Police have not provided any information in the boxes for Approval Type (for the laser used) Offence detected over xx miles is blank and Distance from device to Prolaser only is also blank. Does this make any difference?


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The first NIP to the Registered Keeper must arrive within 14 days unless there is a valid reason why that was not possible, for example a recent change of details.

    This link will take you to the advice provided by the RAC's legal team.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 06 May 2008 09:24:54 +0100
The Rookie
You now have to wait for the citation and plead not guilty if you want to see the evidence, in England you could enter a 'Newton plea' where you plead guilty to speeding, but contest the alleged speed, not sure how it works on Scotland though...

Simon
zilzal99
For those that helped - thanks very much for taking the time - this site has been very useful.

An update on my case......

Attended court on 22 May 2008, employed a local solicitor to speak on my behalf at a cost of £175, and pled guilty.

Result for being caught doing 61mph in a 30mph limit - 5 points and a £200 fine reduced from £300 for pleading guilty at the first opportunity.

I think in the circumstances this was a fair result but what annoys me is that I am considered a criminal like the other scum that were at court that day. All on first name terms with the clerk of the court and all clearly regular attenders..........or as the clerk said to him.....Hi John what are you up for this time?

Word of advice for anyone who is being summonsed........google motor lawyers......all provide free advice and some of them go above and beyond the free advice without any suggestion of a cost..........If you want legal representation try and get someone local as it cuts down on the charges.....

Best of luck to all the other hardened speeding criminals out there....the sooner the Police rid the UK of us, they can concentrate on the knife crime epidemic plagueing society....rant over......
The Rookie
That's not a bad result for that speed...

Strictly as you plead guilty t a criminal offence, you were also one of the criminals in there...but I know what you mean, ever noticed how much higher the fine is for say speeding than for say mugging and old lady.....

Simon
zilzal99
I thought so as well Simon - and yes I appreciate that I am a criminal with an up till then clean licence for 25 years and never having troubled the Police before, just somehow did not feel that I was in the right place with the scum of the earth who had been fighting, dealing drugs and assaulting a police officer......some of the conversations I overheard while awaiting my case to be heard.

And the Police wonder why support for them is dwindling..........I accept I was going too fast.......but it was 10.35pm at night......no-one on the road........in excellent driving conditions and just 200 yards short of a national speed limit sign...........is it really a good use of Police resources..........

rant number 2 now over......

Cheers
ontheroadagain
QUOTE (zilzal99 @ Fri, 30 May 2008 - 14:37) *
I thought so as well Simon - and yes I appreciate that I am a criminal with an up till then clean licence for 25 years and never having troubled the Police before, just somehow did not feel that I was in the right place with the scum of the earth who had been fighting, dealing drugs and assaulting a police officer......some of the conversations I overheard while awaiting my case to be heard.

And the Police wonder why support for them is dwindling..........I accept I was going too fast.......but it was 10.35pm at night......no-one on the road........in excellent driving conditions and just 200 yards short of a national speed limit sign...........is it really a good use of Police resources..........

rant number 2 now over......

Cheers


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