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SDO
Hi guys

Got a police notice Saturday morning aparenty i've been caught speeding. Now the offence took place on th 11/1/08 now that was ages ago and having read the FaQ's section this is what it say's

Q, "why haven't i received the notice of intended prosection within 14 days of the alleged offence"

A. "You are probably not the recorded keeper of the vehicle. The law states that a notice of intened prosecution must be sent within 14 days to the keeper as recorded at the DVLA"

Now not only is the police notice dated 25/4/08 no where near the 14 days stated but i'm the registered keeper and have been since last year and have my log book to prove it.

Should i fight it or just take it on the chin hold my hands up as only got 3 points on my licence

What you think
nemo
Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard, and the Wizard will then post its output back here to enable us to help you.

And what is the DocRef date on the logbook ?
pauliexjr
Bit rusty on this, long time since I've been on here, but if you are adamant you are the registered keeper and the vehicle is registered at the address the NIP was sent to then I think you will find you are home free. My understanding is they HAVE to serve you within 14 days of the offence or the NIP is invalid.

Don't roll over just yet, wait for some of the more legally minded types on this site to confirm it.
Ocelot
Does your logbook have your current address on it? If so, has it been on there since last year? If it was near the end of last year it is possible that they sent a NIP to your previous address, or the previous owner's address (it can take a while for them to update their records).

If, however, your current address has been for the RK for the vehicle for some considerable time, it is worth sending them the letter in Mika's post in this formum http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=87.
SDO
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2008
Date of the NIP: - 104 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 105 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Mansfield Rd near st andrews rd
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Cant actuallt remember much as it was 4 months ago. Think i may have been someone picking up to go home

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:57:14 +0100
SDO
I'll check my log book when i get home but brought the car at the beginning of 2007. But all my Tax reminders and other DVLA letters come through ok
bama
scammers lie. the presumption of service is rebuttable. if you can rebutt it then service was defacto outside 14 days and so it should disappear. but I am not a solicitor...
Cornucopia
QUOTE (bama @ Mon, 28 Apr 2008 - 14:40) *
scammers lie. the presumption of service is rebuttable. if you can rebutt it then service was defacto outside 14 days and so it should disappear. but I am not a solicitor...


This has not been accepted by the Police Force I am dealing with even though the initial NIP did not arrive at all (only the reminder some weeks later did) and even though they were also operating the Talivan on a pavement with the doors closed and I have photographic proof there were no 30mph signs on either side of the road at one of the nearby entry zone points to the 30mph zone (they then later installed the signs a few weeks after my letter). When challenged they sent a copy of the initial NIP showing it had been sent 13 days after the offence even though it never arrived.

Some SCPs just believe in continuing to threaten court proceedings no matter how much evidence you offer that they will clearly lose if it goes to court.

However if you what you say here is correct the NIP was issued with an actual issue date 104 days after the offence. Are you sure that isn't a reminder NIP and that if you write to them they won't claim another NIP was sent out within 14 days. If you then say you never received it they then produce a copy of the NIP they say was sent within 14 days and you are then left to contest its non arrival in court. I can't believe they can hope to succeed with the first NIP issued more than 14 days after the offence on the date on it unless they can argue your details were not up to date with the DVLA at the time.
southpaw82
QUOTE (Cornucopia @ Mon, 28 Apr 2008 - 14:50) *
NIP was sent out within 14 days.


Served, not sent.
Cornucopia
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 28 Apr 2008 - 15:19) *
Served, not sent.

It was only sent out and not "served" because it didn't arrive.

However the Police are maintaining that the act of sending out an NIP equates to service, even though ACPO guidelines recommending use of Recorded Delivery clearly indicate service cannot be proven without a signature from the recipient address. It is perfectly clear the Police are using an inherently defective process for service solely in both these cases in order to lower their own costs.
southpaw82
The point I'm making is that i tmust be served within 14 days, not sent within 14 days.
bama
southpaw is correct.

if in doubt use this matrix to resolve
1) scammers lie
2) for all other questions refer to 1)

It seems SoP for all SCPs is to tell folks that posting within 14 days is enough - strange that eh...
even worse often when you look into they mean the day they printed the NIP NOT the day it actually entered the postal system..

while pondering that have a read starting at
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autoco...ticle&id=14
alternatively lots of posts on here about the 14 day rule for service of ther first NIP in the chain (if any chain exists that is) upon the RK
SDO
Well my log book shows my old address so guess i haven't got a leg to stand on now. even though it took them 4 months to track me down.

How would they have tracked me down if my logbook show's my old address pretty sure i've told the dvla as my tax reminders come through to my address now.
bama
that is a horse of a different colour...
jeffreyarcher
I wonder how long Notts. take to turn their correspondence round?
They have to lay an information by the 11th of July.
The Rookie
You are also tantalisingly on the cusp of a timout, naming the driver on the csup of the 28that day, and then getting sent a CoFP which means they have to suspend action for its 28 valid days, as is likley could see them fail to lay an information within the 6 months, though its possible they will manage it.

Simon
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