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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
allafloat
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - April 2008
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A605, North of Huntingdon Rd Roundabout, Thrapston
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Rushing to see my father who was dying in hospital - he died 2 hours after the speeding offence. I know that this is no defence in law but would hope that magistrates might make allowances. My partner was driving and he is about to leave the country, so will they be able to deliver a NIP and charge him? (He lives and works from a boat and receives very little post.)

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the Section 172 statement naming the person you believe was driving.
    You aren't incriminating them - they'll receive a NIP to complete themselves in due course.

    (You might also like to let that person know that they can expect to receive one, and give them the link to this Wizard for when it arrives!)

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:11:52 +0100
7159keith
Are you saying that your partner was driving? If so you need to name him as the driver but no need to rush, make sure the letter arrives close to but within 28 days of the original NIP.

Yes letter, you are quite within your rights to reply by letter give them your name d.o.b and licence number and naming your partner as driver at the time of the "alleged" incident. This will at least make them work for their money.

Then when your partner has a NIP in his own name come back on here for further advice.
allafloat
My partner was driving and I will name him in the NIP. The question is how he will be pursued given that he will be overseas and is unlikely to receive any post - can he be found guilty in his absence and without completing any paperwork?

Cheers Allafloat.
The Rookie
It depends on your arrangement, you either forward the S172 request he recieves to him, or keep it until his return when he then replies...

I think your partner would have a good 'special reasons not to endorse' case should he wish to progress in that direction.

Simon
allafloat
Thanks Simon, I had not heard of 'not to endorse' - we still have not sent back the NIP and are considering options: I have a clean licence and am able to provide a death certificate confirming my argument and am willing to take the rap if this is the best option. The other option is to return the NIP with my partners details and try for a time out but this is where it gets really unusual. We live and work from a boat and the registered keeper address that the NIP was sent to is a canalside business that we used as a postal address when we were in that area. If we return the NIP with my partners details then 'his' NIP will be sent to the same address but we will simply not collect any post and the NIP will remain on the shelf as we are going to Ireland for a couple of years from the end of May. The hope is that by remaining uncontactable the whole affair will simply be dropped but neither of us wants this to be hanging over us and given that the postal address for both NIP will be the same it would be very hard to argue that I did not see it coming, so to speak.

We were wondering what the best options were and were hoping that somebody might be able to point out the pitfalls in our plans or suggest a better approach and your suggestion of a 'not to endorse' possibility has already made us wonder if we are not overreacting!

Many thanks
Giles.
roythebus
You cannot take the rap for what your partner may have done. That is perverting the course of justice and that means a custodial sentence if you get caught doing it. Best advice is that given above.
The Rookie
Under certain circumstances an offender can plead guilty and ask for special reasons not to endorse, their are four qualifying requirements I can give.

If this goes to court, its unlikely to be settled in the next 6 months.

I'm not sure what your suggesting, to conspire to pervert the course of justice (wrong driver taking the 'hit') is punishable with a MANDATORY jail term.

If you want to clear it up quick, then name the driver and the named driver should accept the CoFP which will almost certainly follow.

If not then name the driver and supply an address from which mail can be forwarded to wherever you are in Ireland.

Is this the same person posting as its all written in the first person and sounds contradictory in places due to this, if there are errors please correct as if only one person is posting!

Simon
allafloat
There seems to be so much conflicting advice on this forum! The reason that my partner (passenger at the time and the RK of the vehicle) is happy to take the rap is that it seems likely that she will be dealt with more leniently than me (the speeding driver) as it was her father who was dying. She also has no points and has never been charged with anything while I have 3 for speeding already. We will not be able to sort a delivery address for post in Ireland for quite some time yet and for obvious reasons have no desire to return to Northamptonshire for a court case and the chances of getting caught for perverting the justice must be remote in the extreme - after all the general agreement on this site is that the speeding system is primarily a source of revenue for police forces. If we followed the process to the letter and named me as the driver and I did not receive/collect the NIP then what is the likely outcome? What are my chances of pleading mitigating circumstances due to the impending death if I submit a letter with the NIP when I eventually receive it?

Sorry about the confusion - I hope this clears it up.
allafloat.
jobo
there are debates on the correct interpritation of the law,

but there is always agreement that perverting the course of justice is a criminal offence which could affect us as well as you

if you insist on going down this line its better not to post at all

quite why you think that having a distressed wife whos father is dying in the car is less likly to get sympathy from the courts i dont know and im assuming that you were very upset as well, anyway

I think it hold water better that than 6 months inside
southpaw82
QUOTE (allafloat @ Tue, 29 Apr 2008 - 16:50) *
There seems to be so much conflicting advice on this forum! The reason that my partner (passenger at the time and the RK of the vehicle) is happy to take the rap is that it seems likely that she will be dealt with more leniently than me (the speeding driver) as it was her father who was dying. She also has no points and has never been charged with anything while I have 3 for speeding already. We will not be able to sort a delivery address for post in Ireland for quite some time yet and for obvious reasons have no desire to return to Northamptonshire for a court case and the chances of getting caught for perverting the justice must be remote in the extreme - after all the general agreement on this site is that the speeding system is primarily a source of revenue for police forces.


I think some uncontradicted advice you will find is that perverting the course of justice is a crime and is not only not recommended but actively discouraged by people giving advice on here. If you do decide to go down that route despite the warnings given then should you be caught (and it happens more often than you might think) then both you and your partner can expect an appearance at the Crown Court and be sentenced to something like six to nine months in prison. I think it's only fair that you're advised of the risks inherent in the course you're proposing.
allafloat
Thanks southpaw.
It was advice that we sought and we have certainly received it on one front - there is no way that we will go down the route of perverting the course of justice; we will return the NIP with the drivers details on it and let the process continue. Given that we do not have a forwarding address for Ireland (we move about on our boat and use Poste Restante at post offices) what should we do regarding the second NIP? The bottom line is - what is the best way of trying to avoid three points and £60? Do we go out of our way to make sure that we receive the second NIP as quickly as possible and then plead our case or, take the ostrich route and hope that the problem just goes away. At no point do I deny being the speeder but I do think that had we been stopped by a policeman we may not have been charged due to our obvious distress. (I used to play rugby for the police as a guest and do know that they are human).

Or is the best thing to cough up, take the rap and just get on with our lives?

Allafloat.
southpaw82
I suspect that if you bury your (collective) head in the sand then you may well be convicted in your absence and face the prospect of a fine (which may end up being a warrant if you go to Ireland and do not pay it for a sufficiently long time) and 6 points on your licence. Alternatively, the matter may fall through the cracks if you advise the police that you are moving semi-permanently to Ireland.

It is possiblt to tidy this matter up fairly rapidly by naming the correct driver on the s. 172 form and paying the inevitable COFP as soon as it arrives.

What would you like to do? If the paperwork is all correct then I'd suggest that in your circumstances that taking the COFP might be the best route. Your points will have no effect in Ireland, so far as I know.

I must say that the idea of cruising round Ireland on a boat appeals!
allafloat
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 29 Apr 2008 - 17:35) *
I suspect that if you bury your (collective) head in the sand then you may well be convicted in your absence and face the prospect of a fine (which may end up being a warrant if you go to Ireland and do not pay it for a sufficiently long time) and 6 points on your licence. Alternatively, the matter may fall through the cracks if you advise the police that you are moving semi-permanently to Ireland.

It is possiblt to tidy this matter up fairly rapidly by naming the correct driver on the s. 172 form and paying the inevitable COFP as soon as it arrives.

What would you like to do? If the paperwork is all correct then I'd suggest that in your circumstances that taking the COFP might be the best route. Your points will have no effect in Ireland, so far as I know.

I must say that the idea of cruising round Ireland on a boat appeals!



Thanks again Southpaw, I will do as you advise and try to get the whole sorry business dealt with as quickly as possible by returning the existing NIP with all my own details attached as well as a letter explaining the circumstances with all the supporting evidence. I know that we are not meant to do this but I will explain that we are about to leave the country and would like a rapid conclusion and let them decide what is for the best.

The best thing about cruising round Ireland is that we will not have a car so should be free from anymore of these nightmares!

Many thanks for all the advice received from forum members - you may well have stopped us from doing something foolish.

Allafloat.
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