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nero851
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - April 2008
Date of the NIP: - 1 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A90 Dundee to Aberdeen road at the Aquahiries juntion
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Works Van
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Caught by mobile camera at 71 mph.Have been told 60 for a van on this road.
Pictures show van at the brow of a hill.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to consider completing the form, but returning it unsigned. By doing so there is a risk that you will be convicted under s172, which would attract 6 penalty points and a fine; in most cases this is likely to exceed the penalty for the speeding offence itself.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:11:52 +0100
jobo
please clarify was the first NIP sent to you or your employer, its just that 6 days seems promp to get one to them and then to you

can you cover reg no and post picie
Lexus_Ian
What make of van was it ideally if you know the GVW it may help.

Also, as it is a works van the NIP will be addressed to the work, they need to name you as the driver, ideally as close to the 28 day mark as possible, depends on how accomodating your work is.

They are not allowed to hand you the NIP and you return it. They must state you as the driver and a new NIP will then be issued.
nero851
The first nip was sent to my employer and the second to me.

I have only just found out that as my van is over 2000 Kg unladen weight that it falls into the category for reduced speed limits.What annoys me is that this does not seem to be widley publicised by the police and media etc.
I did not know about it until now,in fact even my empoloyer did not know that this was the case.

captain swoop
I am holding my breath in the same situation, I went past a camera van while I was overtaking a lorry at about 70mph on the A66 on monday. I was in a works Van, it's a Citroen Dispatch, I didn't realise it was restricted to 60 on a dual carriageway and neither did my employer. It's Gross weight is 2200kg.

I just hope the operator was more interested in the Rep Mobiles coming down the hill at a faster pace than I was.
Transit man
As a Transit driver I am well aware of the speed limits mad.gif "A" class roads, 50mph (cars 60, lorries 40), dual carriageway, 60 mph (cars 70, lorries 50) & M ways 70, (cars also 70, lorries 60). AFAIK certain unmanned cameras can detect the size of vehicle sad.gif & of course, operators know the rules. Car derived vans, ie, Ford Escort, Vauxhall Astra are subject to the same rules as cars.
captain swoop
The Dispatch vans we use are barely bigger than a car, I would prob have guessed that a Transit size van was a classified differently.
jobo
its got nothing to do with the weight class of the vehicle or the size

its does not apply to vans based on cars

so astra car astra van no speed restriction
nemo
A goods vehicle is defined as one constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of goods or burden of any description.

Goods vehicles, other than car derived vans, are subject to special speed limits - see Part 1 of Schedule 6, RTRA 1984

Car derived vans are treated separately. A CDV is a goods vehicle which is a derivative of a passenger vehicle AND has a maximum laden weight of less than 2000kg. This class of vehicle is not subject to any special speed limits.
sparkie
this is happening a lot recently,so what is the limit for a normal connect on a national speed limit road? 60mph? surely its not bloody 50!
captain swoop
It would seem so, the dispatch is based on a car but has a gross weight of 2200kg so I guess I will have to stick to 50. I might ask if I can swap it for one of the little vans, not as comfortable but I will get places a lot quicker.
Transit man
QUOTE (sparkie @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 - 20:40) *
this is happening a lot recently,so what is the limit for a normal connect on a national speed limit road? 60mph? surely its not bloody 50!


A Ford Transit Connect, is not built from a car "platform" & therefore as such, for the discussion on speed limits, it is classed as a commercial vehicle & is subject to the special limits. So, sorry, you are limited to 50 on single carraigeways, 60 on duals & 70 on M ways, unless of course a lower limit is in force.
sparkie
thanks for clearing that up mate! god sake! its only a small van with better brakes than my car, abs, ebd, abc etc..... smile.gif

i get people overtaking me in 30's so what are people gonna be like when im doing 50 on an empty open road
Transit man
QUOTE (captain swoop @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 - 20:43) *
It would seem so, the dispatch is based on a car but has a gross weight of 2200kg so I guess I will have to stick to 50. I might ask if I can swap it for one of the little vans, not as comfortable but I will get places a lot quicker.


Do you mean a Citreon Dispatch? If so is it based on a car? I know they are often converted to 7/8 seater taxis but I didn't think they had a car ancestry. But I don't get out much so I could be wrong wink.gif
Transit man
QUOTE (sparkie @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 - 21:38) *
thanks for clearing that up mate! god sake! its only a small van with better brakes than my car, abs, ebd, abc etc..... smile.gif

i get people overtaking me in 30's so what are people gonna be like when im doing 50 on an empty open road


Do as I do, arm on open window, dog hanging out of passenger window & copy of the Star on dash, then wave them by before a bend ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ,. ONLY JOKING.

Seriously, many vehicles have a sign written on the back such as :- This vehicle is limited, by law, to 50mph on single carraigeway roads, sorry for any delay!.
nemo
QUOTE (Transit man @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 - 21:40) *
Do you mean a Citreon Dispatch? If so is it based on a car?

Its wouldn't matter if it was car derived by virtue of its GVW being in excess of 2000kg..
sparkie
really then unless its a corsavan, astravan, escortvan or fiestavan then its 50 on single, 60 on dual and 70 on mways!
Lexus_Ian
I get them all the time.... Guy jumps out of a Berlingo into a Dispatch and thinks the same rules apply.... Have tried talks, stickers on windscreens, articles on our intranet and even in company newspaper... showing photo's of scammers and our vans..

Funny thing is traffic don't bother at all, as long as the van is behaving and not close to the vehicle in front they let it go, only the scammers are seem to be issuing tickets..

Have now gone down the route of limiting Transit's to 70mph to lessen the chances of being caught...
sparkie
well technically the same rules do apply, berlingo isnt car derived! so its 50 on a single carriageway
nemo
QUOTE (sparkie @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 - 22:56) *
well technically the same rules do apply, berlingo isnt car derived!

Is it not a derivative of the Berlingo car / MPV ?

Zed Victor One
I thought the Berlingo car was a derivative of the Berlingo van not the other way round and in any case I think you'll find the GPW is over 2000kg's.
nemo
QUOTE (Zed Victor One @ Thu, 24 Apr 2008 - 00:23) *
I thought the Berlingo car was a derivative of the Berlingo van not the other way round and in any case I think you'll find the GPW is over 2000kg's.

The van may well pre-date the car / MPV - to be honest, I didn't check. But I did think that it had a GVW of less than 2 tonnes..
Lexus_Ian
QUOTE
I thought the Berlingo car was a derivative of the Berlingo van not the other way round and in any case I think you'll find the GPW is over 2000kg's.


Due to having a GVW of 1805kg the Berlingo is governed by the same limits as a car, any van with a GVW over 2020kg has to abide by the lower limits. The Dispatch falls into this category as it has a GVW of 2205 for the 1.9 engine or slightly higher for the HDi engine.

This link below will help any van drivers in doubt.

Van Limits At Bottom of Link
sparkie
how did you find that lexus_ian?? im trying to find out what the weight of a combo 1.7di is and a transit connect 08 reg
Lexus_Ian
Pretty sure the GVW for a Combo 1.7 is 1995kg, Transit connect 2040-2240kg

Ford Van PDF

Will try and find more details tomorrow, deal with both companes direct. Hope this helps

sparkie
thanks lexus! the vauxhall website is rubbish, a bit like their combos!!!!

so until i get a connect then my combo counts as the slightly higher limits then? as its under 2 tonne.

the connects are the basic lx models i think, they're leased, and have no electric windows etc.....
The Rookie
It still has to be 'car derived' in order to have the higher limits apply, this is not legally defined, but for type approval there is a relaxation on van approvals if the structure has already been approved as a 'car' for crash purposes, the Berlingo is a CDV in this respect.

In this day and age its unlikley a van under 2 tonnes is not a CDV anyway, the connect is based on a Focus (mkI) and would be a CDV, but is over 2T.

Simon
Pigfarmer
Where would a Hi-lux / Ranger type pick up fit in. Its not a van, has a GVW of about 2800kg, not car derived and so on. But is the same size & config a Range Rover which can do 70.
nemo
QUOTE (Pigfarmer @ Fri, 25 Apr 2008 - 08:42) *
Where would a Hi-lux / Ranger type pick up fit in. Its not a van, has a GVW of about 2800kg, not car derived and so on.

If it is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods, has an unladen weight of less than 2040kg and is either all wheel drive OR has a rigid roof, fixed or folding rear seats and rear side windows, then it becomes a dual purpose vehicle.

DPVs are not subject to special speed limits (subject to not towing or carrying more than 8 passengers).

QUOTE (Pigfarmer @ Fri, 25 Apr 2008 - 08:42) *
But is the same size & config a Range Rover which can do 70.

I can categorically confirm that a Rangie will do significantly more than 70mph..ninja.gif

Anyway, a Range Rover is a passenger vehicle and less than 3.05 tonnes unladen so it falls into the 'car' category for speed limits..smile.gif
captain swoop
Just had a talk with the guys at work, we have 6 or 7 Dispatches driven by 8 or 9 people. Only 1 guy knew about the 60 mph on dual carriageways and he says he never bothers, he has been going past camera vans at 70 and never heard a peep for years. He claims to have talked to a couple of Traffic cops and one of the men who operates a traffic van and they say the area is so Grey trhey don't bother with a small van like a Dispatch. As for the others not one of them has ever had a ticket.
Lexus_Ian
QUOTE
Just had a talk with the guys at work, we have 6 or 7 Dispatches driven by 8 or 9 people. Only 1 guy knew about the 60 mph on dual carriageways and he says he never bothers, he has been going past camera vans at 70 and never heard a peep for years. He claims to have talked to a couple of Traffic cops and one of the men who operates a traffic van and they say the area is so Grey trhey don't bother with a small van like a Dispatch. As for the others not one of them has ever had a ticket.


As mentioned previously the traffic cops don't really bother unless they consider driving to close to the car in front.... The scammers are not so kind.... I run a fleet which includes Dispatches & Transits covering every area in Scotland, I have received NIP's from all areas in relation to vans exceeding their lower limits, although to be fair most are for a single carriageway where the limit is 50mph

If the speedo was showing 70 there is a good chance the van was doing less, probably in the region of 65mph which would bring the driver under the level of tollerance which is speed limit + 10% + 2mph. (Note the tollerance level is only a guide)
sparkie
50 mph for me on singles now, bee driving at that today, had so many beeps! and the overtakes must be more dangerous than me doing 60 smile.gif
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