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MustaqS
I was charged with breaking a 30MPH speed limit via an NIP, and although I was surprised, I answered all the letters. I recalled an incident on the day at the road mentioned, but seem to recall that the speed limit was 40mph.

I have received a Statement of Facts which states: "On 13/10/07, On 12:07 HRS on 13/10/2007 the defendant drove...at a speeed exceeding the legal limit of 30 Miles per hour. The speed recorded by means of LT1 20/20 Speed detection device was 52 miles per hour. The speed limit was signified by street lighting placed at less than 200 yard intervals."

There are two Statement of Witness:
1) by trained operator of LTI 20/20. This states that the speed limit was 40 mph denoted by regulatory signs/ regulatory repeaters. Any signs that were present at the check location were visible and in good order. He gives the time as "About 12:07:06" when he formed the opinion of excess speed and measured the speed of 52mph. He also stated that the device was linked to a video recording system.

2) by a viewer of the video evidence stating "I have been responsible for processing an allegation of EXCEED 30MPH ON A RESTRICTED ROAD (CAMERA) ... caused the device to be activated at 12:07:06 on 13/10/2007 and as a result, the following photographic evidence was recorded. [Ed: No such evidence was provided].
The speed of the vehicle has been recorded as 52 mph, this being in excess of that legally permissable for the road, namely 30 mph."

Initially, I thought these were two events, but the date/time/speed indicate the same event.

This seems to be contradictory evidence - I am sure the limit was 40mph as per the first SOW (on this road the street lighting limits are 40mph and the road is a dual carriageway.) Therefore the statement of facts are wrong. Assuming the limit was 40mph, how do I stand legally on this?
southpaw82
QUOTE (MustaqS @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 - 17:17) *
on this road the street lighting limits are 40mph and the road is a dual carriageway


What do you mean by this? Was there a system of street lighting (only) or were there 40 mph signs and repeaters?
MustaqS
To clarify, I know the road in question quite well (the offence was in Leicester and I am in London). It has 40 mph signs placed periodically on street lighting and a "Proper" 30 mph sign when the dual cariageway ends. There are no 30mph signs on the street lighting as per the Statement of Facts. On the day in question, I had to stop soon after the 30mph sign, so it is unlikely that I could have been driving at the stated speed except at the 40mph part of the road. My suggestion is that the offence should have been for breaking the 40mph limit, not the 30mph one. This is as per the first "witness" who used the camera.
jobo
I know its a long way but have a day out and go and reci the area and take picies , measurements of what signage is there and distances ect

what did it say on the NIP with regards to offence and location

might be woth doing the nip wiz so that all the info is laid out
MustaqS
Basically, I was abroad when the letter about a future summons was sent to me, but after returning from abroad, I visited Leicester and checked the road visually, even though I am quite familiar with it. The road matches the description of the camera user in that it has 40mph limit with appropriate signs i.e. he states that he pointed the device "towards Thurmaston" and that "approaching vehicles were travelling towards Leicester". So I can accurately place where the alleged offence occurred, and it is 40mph road.

I need to reply pretty soon (case is on 7 May - I only received the letter on Monday), and my decision can be Guilty or Not Guilty. Clearly I do not have the option of viewing the tape and need to decide based on what they have sent me. I can disprove their charge based on their own evidence that has been sent to me: witness one states "The speed limit was 40 mph". I can provide photographic evidence at the case also assuming I have a good chance of winning and plead not guilty since I do not have an option other than guilty/not guilty.

So what I need to know is: is it a valid defence to say that the correct offence was not notified within 14 days and/or can I disprove the charge by showing that 30 mph signs were not on the street light as alleged.

jobo
your in danger of confusing your self

If the statement of facts is an error( they meant to say 40 but typed 30) they can correct this at court

but what it says on the NIP is important which is why i asked you to tell us what it is and do the wiz

Start at the begging and we will try to help
MustaqS
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Leicestershire
Date of the offence: - 13/10/2007
Date of the NIP: - 29/11/2007 after wife had been notified first as reg keeper within 14 days
Date you received the NIP: - few days after
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A607 MELTON ROAD, LEICESTER
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Husband
How many current points do you have? - 3 (I had 6 at the time of alleged offence)
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - What I recall is that I travelled down the road and then was in the process of stopping due to a queue of cars ahead (approaching a roundabout) and noticed the marked Speed Camera Van. I cannot recall what my speed was when I was clocked, but I am surprised by the alleged speed. The NIP states: "In accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988... for the alleged offence of (speed 52mph) EXCEED 30MPH ON A RESTRICTED ROAD (CAMERA). " It also states that there is photo and/or video evidence
MustaqS
I would really appreciate some advice re the summons I have received. As I see it:

1) NIP states 30MPH offence
2) The person operating the camera is checking for offences re 40mph limit

From my research, I believe that the police have 14 days to notify you of an alleged speeding offence, so I could argue that they have not done this as the offence is wrong based on their own evidence. Additionally, I could argue that based on the alleged offence, there were no 30mph signs on the road in question.

I am extremely tempted to plead not guilty, but do I have a chance of winning the case? Also, if I plead not guilty, what should I state as a reason?
The Rookie
QUOTE (MustaqS @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 - 17:17) *
I have received a Statement of Facts which states: "On 13/10/07, On 12:07 HRS on 13/10/2007 the defendant drove...at a speeed exceeding the legal limit of 30 Miles per hour. The speed recorded by means of LT1 20/20 Speed detection device was 52 miles per hour. The speed limit was signified by street lighting placed at less than 200 yard intervals."


Read this again, its saying the 30 limit was signified by the street lights NOPT signs, as in a restricted road....

Its clear you were caught in a 40 (from the operators statement) and the summons has been raised incorrectly, the slip rule will allow this to be corrected unfourtunately to the correct 40 limit.

If you want to plead guilty, I would suggest turning up and pointing out the error so you get the correct penalty, you should be able to do it by letter but I have little confidence in the ability of the courts to read it properly.

If you want to plead not guilty the location given looks to be about 4 miles long or more http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|melt...land,%20LE7%209 and inline with Young V Day this would invalidate the NIP.

Simon
MustaqS
Thanks for the information. I have contacted Robert Dobson of Pryce Woodrow, who mentioned similar advice re Young, and sent him all the paperwork. So I shall be taking his advice.

I actually have a law degree (1981) (although I am not a lawyer) so I am really tempted to challenge the allegation, but I'll leave it to the expert!
MustaqS
Following advice from Robert, I contacted the police unit to clarify the speed limit based on the site code from the summons, saying that my solicitor and I were confused about the offence committed. I have just been contacted by a Police Officer who said that there had been a mistake and that they are dropping the case, and apologising for the mistake. I am "over the moon".

Thanks for all the replies regarding this issue, and I would like to personally recommend Robert who has been of immense help!
southpaw82
Super, pleased for you.
The Rookie
Good effort, based on what we know, they could have progressed, but maybe there are bigger issues, or maybe they actually considered 'the public interest'!

Simon
bama
can I have some of what Simon is drinking please ? smile.gif

Good result though. Well done. can you get your costs ?
MustaqS
I did not incur any costs. Robert's strategy was to make sure that the road was 40mph and then go from there. What I did do was to make sure they knew I had gone to a solicitor, which may have swayed things.
The Rookie
You mean Robert was free?

Simon
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