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jocko
sad.gif Received Nip about 10 days ago which I scanned and typed info onto but did not sign, I have now received it back stating that a photocopy is no good, must be original and also that I must sign it. Coincidently was done by static camera from back of van doing 82 in 70 limit one of 1400 done in Fife in the month of July!
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (jocko)
Received Nip about 10 days ago which I scanned and typed info onto but did not sign, I have now received it back stating that a photocopy is no good, must be original

They may well be correct there.

QUOTE (jocko)
and also that I must sign it.

They all say that.

QUOTE (jocko)
one of 1400 done in Fife in the month of July!

Didn't they form a scameraship recently?

On the more serious point, jocko, as yet (post Y&M), the position in Scotland regarding the admissibility of confession evidence is unknown to any web groups that I am awaare of. PACE does not apply in Scotland. So, whatever you decide to do, be aware of this. You may well be a guinea pig!
jocko
Thanks for that Jeffrey, I will fill in form apart from signature and ask for photographic record, the log book and camera certificate and see how that goes. I'm away to Dom. Rep. on Tuesday so they will have to fly out to aprehend me!
DefaDog
jocko - when you fill it in, take a careful look at the wording next to the box that you tick. IF (and I say IF) this document amounts to aocnfession, then you have the absolute right to change the wording - as stated in PACE.

If you dont think you were the driver, for example, you could amend it to "I might have been the driver, but I cant remember". Make sure you intial the change.

I dont know if you could actually sign it and return it without ticking any of the boxes - after all, it is illegal to make a FALSE statement, so if none of the boxes match what you WISH to say in YOUR CONFESSION, then you cant tick the box?

Does this sound right under PACE?
DefaDog
jocko - when you fill it in, take a careful look at the wording next to the box that you tick. IF (and I say IF) this document amounts to aocnfession, then you have the absolute right to change the wording - as stated in PACE.

If you dont think you were the driver, for example, you could amend it to "I might have been the driver, but I cant remember". Make sure you intial the change.

I dont know if you could actually sign it and return it without ticking any of the boxes - after all, it is illegal to make a FALSE statement, so if none of the boxes match what you WISH to say in YOUR CONFESSION, then you cant tick the box?

Does this sound right under PACE?
JustMe
I'm sure it's hard to argue that a handwritten document is not admissible in court, just because it isn't signed.
It would be harder for the prosecution to make a case, if the form was filled in with a typewriter, and no signature either.

But of course if people go to all these lengths and *still* name themselves as the driver - it's all rather academic, isn't it?

Either you go all the way, or you shut up and pay up. All this half-way house bull isn't gonna work in the long run.

They need YOU to tell THEM who the driver was. That's what it boils down to. You either give them a UK licence holder or you don't.
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (jocko)
I will fill in form apart from signature

QUOTE (DefaDog)
Make sure you intial the change.

FFS DefaDog.
DefaDog
jefferyarcher - if you read the post before criticising, you will note that I was suggesting that, if the NIP amounts to a confession and is recognised as such, whether it is signed or not, then you have the right to alter the words.
I further argued that since you are not permitted to make a false statement, if you sign it and leave it blank, then you are within your rights under pace.
The document is not written by you - therefore it was written for you by a third party. Under the rules of evidence, you then have the right to change anything that was written which does not convey the meaning that you intended.
So, IF JO has now placed the NIP under PACE, you can amend it, or not complete the boxes, then sign it and return it. They would have a difficult time arguing their way around it. However, you would need to ascertain whether the CPS definately consider it a confession or not.
If the returned documenbt says "I might have been the driver, but I cant remember, the vehicle was used by three people that day" I dont see how they can convict you on that evidence alone. This is as good as not singing the NIP in the first place.
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (jocko)
I will fill in form apart from signature


QUOTE (DefaDog)
Make sure you intial the change.


QUOTE (DefaDog)
The document is not written by you - therefore it was written for you by a third party.
jocko
Defadog, the form they use up here has no tick boxes on it, have returned it asking for photographic evidence, calibration certificate for camera and log book for the operator for that day. On this particular stretch of road they have no camera warning signs between some of the junctions and they are sitting on grass verges with orange flashing roof lights turned on just to let you know they are there!
DefaDog
Interested to note that. THe NIP issued in Avon and Somerset has 7 choices of "confession" (if the PACE agument is correct) and you select one. Would be intersted to know if they are different around the country - could cause even more confusion

Of course, it remains to be seen what happens if you change the wording - since it is a confession, you are empowered to amend it as you please before it is submitted.

Can you tell me what form the NIP takes in Scotland? How do you respond to it? Or does it not have any options on it?
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