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CakeLover
Here's the problem.

I got huckled for having no insurance while I was driving my girlfriend's car. However, I did have insurance on my own car, which allows me to drive any car.

HER car was, however, not insured itself, and wasn't in her name (she'd just bought it a couple of weeks previous).

But because I'd been driving it, and we live together at the same address, and the car had been sold 'to me' (i.e. I'd signed the papers when I picked it up for her) I stupidly said it was "to all intents and purposes my car, although I'm not the registered keeper".

Basically, because the car itself has no insurance policy taken out on it, it wouldn't matter who was driving it at the time, or on what level of policy, they wouldn't be insured because the car isn't!! Does that make sense??

So my questions are these...

1. I know ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law, but given the circumstances, how likely is this to go through as a conviction?

2. What do you recommend I do about this situation? (The complaint was served on me this morning, I'm in court on Wednesday!!)

3. I have three speeding points which I got in May 2004. Four points which I got in 2005. How many points do I actually have on my licence??!! The whole "you've got them for three years but they're on your licence for four/five" confuses the hell out of me!

4. What do you think the likely penalty, and therefore sentence, will be?

I'm in Scotland, by the way... I know that often matters in law!

Many thanks in advance for your help.
borsicorn
We see this a lot here.

A car is not insured. A driver is. Small point but very serious.

I believe you have not been very precise in your posting. Am I correct in thinking that you are insured to drive any vehicle not owned by you or leased to you via a finance arrangement?

If so, you are insured to drive your GF's car, whether it carries other insurance or not.

The problem is that you seem to have said it is your car, so the extension will not cover you if you are only insured as an extension.

You originally wrote that your insurance covers you to drive any car. That is incorrect, unless you have a trader's policy.

Which is it, please?
CakeLover
Thanks for the swift reply!

I was huckled for this offence on 2nd November last year, and it's now my name on the V5 (though if my g/f and I were to split up it would be her who'd keep the car, and it was only because I was dealing with the insurance that I put the car in my name in the first place). At the time of the offence though, it was still in the name of the previous keeper.

That's what I get for trying to help out!
CakeLover
QUOTE (borsicorn @ Mon, 21 Apr 2008 - 12:01) *
Am I correct in thinking that you are insured to drive any vehicle not owned by you or leased to you via a finance arrangement?

The problem is that you seem to have said it is your car, so the extension will not cover you if you are only insured as an extension.

You originally wrote that your insurance covers you to drive any car. That is incorrect, unless you have a trader's policy.


It's "any car not owned by me or leased to me by finance arrangement".

Apologies for not being specific, I'm still trying to make sense of the thing myself!

Indeed I did say it was my car, stupid though it was. What I should have said is that it's my g/f's car - which it is really, I have two others which ARE mine and are driven by me regularly, I never drive hers!

Two words come to mind... 'verbal' and 'diarrhoea'.
andy_foster
QUOTE (CakeLover @ Mon, 21 Apr 2008 - 11:29) *
I got huckled for having no insurance while I was driving my girlfriend's car.


huckled? Are English subtitles available?

QUOTE
However, I did have insurance on my own car, which allows me to drive any car.


Does it? Or does it cover you to drive any car not owned by you, etc.?

QUOTE
HER car was, however, not insured itself, and wasn't in her name (she'd just bought it a couple of weeks previous).

But because I'd been driving it, and we live together at the same address, and the car had been sold 'to me' (i.e. I'd signed the papers when I picked it up for her) I stupidly said it was "to all intents and purposes my car, although I'm not the registered keeper".


That could be a problem.

QUOTE
Basically, because the car itself has no insurance policy taken out on it, it wouldn't matter who was driving it at the time, or on what level of policy, they wouldn't be insured because the car isn't!!


What is you authority for this twaddle?

QUOTE
Does that make sense??


See above.

QUOTE
So my questions are these...

1. I know ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law, but given the circumstances, how likely is this to go through as a conviction?


Many motoring offences, including insurance offences are 'strict liability'.
In general, ignorance of the law is no defence, but there is a requirement to prove that the act was 'deliberate'. With strict liability offences, this does not apply - it doesn't matter that you didn't know you weren't insured, except as mitigation.

That said, it would seem, from what little you have told us, that you were insured, although your 'admission' to being the owner of OH's car would seem to be a problem.

QUOTE
2. What do you recommend I do about this situation? (The complaint was served on me this morning, I'm in court on Wednesday!!)


Tell us what happened, in English, rather than posting random edited highlights?

Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard, and the Wizard will then post its output back here to enable us to help you.

QUOTE
3. I have three speeding points which I got in May 2004. Four points which I got in 2005. How many points do I actually have on my licence??!! The whole "you've got them for three years but they're on your licence for four/five" confuses the hell out of me!


For the purposes of 'totting up', points are generally valid for 3 years from date of offence to date of offence.
Any points for speeding from offences that were more than 3 years old when you committed this offence (if convicted) will not count for totting up.
How you expect us to tell you whether points that you got 'in 2005' are still valid is beyond me...

QUOTE
4. What do you think the likely penalty, and therefore sentence, will be?


If convicted, 6-8 points and/or a ban, and a large fine.

QUOTE
I'm in Scotland, by the way... I know that often matters in law!


Good luck...
Pete D
The 3 points from May 04 were expired prior to the Nov offence so if they do give you 6 points then it will not be a ban. Did you ring your insurance company when this happend and detail it to them to see if the cover applied. ?? Pete D
davepoth
And crucially, whose money was used to pay for the car? ownership and being the registered keeper are two different things...
CakeLover
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 21 Apr 2008 - 12:16) *
huckled? Are English subtitles available?.


Stopped by the police.

QUOTE
Does it? Or does it cover you to drive any car not owned by you, etc.?.


See earlier post, apologies, I am actually at work right now and posting in between doing my job so am being a little vague. Apologies.


QUOTE
What is you authority for this twaddle?!!


The policeman told me this when he stopped me. It was news to me, I'd never heard this before either.


QUOTE
Tell us what happened, in English, rather than posting random edited highlights?


As I said above, I am at work and trying to figure this out, as well as work. In addition I am not really sure what I'm doing here, so apologies for not going through the right procedure. I'll get onto the NIP wizard now.



QUOTE
How you expect us to tell you whether points that you got 'in 2005' are still valid is beyond me...


The points in 2005 are still valid in terms of this offence surely, no matter what? They were speeding points. In any event, I thought it was the number of points at the time of the offence that mattered? Unfortunately I can't remember (and don't have details here with me) exactly when these four points were put on my licence, sorry.

I'm only trying to make sense of this, if you need to know more information then please just ask and I'll tell you what I can. Cocky replies aren't going to help anyone really.
CakeLover
QUOTE (davepoth @ Mon, 21 Apr 2008 - 12:37) *
And crucially, whose money was used to pay for the car? ownership and being the registered keeper are two different things...


We both paid for the car, but only because my g/f didn't have the money at the time and the car was a bargain, so I helped her out. Or at least it was a bargain until this happened!
davepoth
I think this may be a problem. If you partially paid for the car and didn't get the money back from your G/F before the "pull" you were effectively an owner of the car.
CakeLover
QUOTE (davepoth @ Mon, 21 Apr 2008 - 12:47) *
I think this may be a problem. If you partially paid for the car and didn't get the money back from your G/F before the "pull" you were effectively an owner of the car.


Indeed. The other problem is that because the car was bought through my Ebay account, and I picked the car up on behalf of my g/f from London, the receipt was in my name too - seemed like too much hassle at the time for the guy to change it, and I didn't think it would ever be a problem in any case.

How wrong was I.

Thanks for your replies so far everyone, I really do appreciate this.
jobo
QUOTE (davepoth @ Mon, 21 Apr 2008 - 12:47) *
I think this may be a problem. If you partially paid for the car and didn't get the money back from your G/F before the "pull" you were effectively an owner of the car.



Not if the car was a gift to your beloved it doesnt belong to you
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