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Full Version: Fixed Camera NIP but wasn't Speeding!
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taphasms
I have just received a NIP saying that I was recorded doing 49mph in a 40 and I am 110% certain I wasn't. I used to travel down the road every day and past the speed camera I know it very very well. I was shocked when I opened the letter and don't really know what to do. I am going to ask for the photographic evidence but is there any thing else I can do to prove I am not guilty. I am willing to stand up in court and I am that sure I wasn't over the limit. Has any one had a similar incident?

nemo
Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard, and the Wizard will then post its output back here to enable us to help you.

QUOTE (taphasms @ Thu, 10 Apr 2008 - 19:07) *
I am going to ask for the photographic evidence..

Don't ask for evidence (or proof). Keep the letter short, polite and simply request 'copies of any photographs which may assist with identification of the driver'.


taphasms
QUOTE (nemo @ Thu, 10 Apr 2008 - 19:16) *
Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard, and the Wizard will then post its output back here to enable us to help you.

QUOTE (taphasms @ Thu, 10 Apr 2008 - 19:07) *
I am going to ask for the photographic evidence..

Don't ask for evidence (or proof). Keep the letter short, polite and simply request 'copies of any photographs which may assist with identification of the driver'.





I don't want copies to identify the driver only to prove that the car wan't doing 49 miles an hour. Is it ever possible that the person that does the calculation of the two copies gets it wrong sometimes???
RD400E
QUOTE (taphasms @ Thu, 10 Apr 2008 - 19:29) *
QUOTE (nemo @ Thu, 10 Apr 2008 - 19:16) *
Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard, and the Wizard will then post its output back here to enable us to help you.

QUOTE (taphasms @ Thu, 10 Apr 2008 - 19:07) *
I am going to ask for the photographic evidence..

Don't ask for evidence (or proof). Keep the letter short, polite and simply request 'copies of any photographs which may assist with identification of the driver'.





I don't want copies to identify the driver only to prove that the car wan't doing 49 miles an hour. Is it ever possible that the person that does the calculation of the two copies gets it wrong sometimes???


This is the whole idea of asking for photos to help identify the driver. You need to see the photos so you can at least look for errors that may lead to a dismissal, the only other way to see the photos would be to plead not guilty and even then you may not see them until 7 days before trial!!
nemo
QUOTE (taphasms @ Thu, 10 Apr 2008 - 19:29) *
I don't want copies to identify the driver only to prove that the car wan't doing 49 miles an hour.

That's as maybe. But if you start writing letters which question the accuracy of their evidence, or challenges the scammers to prove the offence, then they are likely to refuse to send you anything further at this stage.

Bear in mind that they are under no obligation whatsoever to send you any evidence until you have been summoned for the alleged offence and a plea of not guilty has been entered..

QUOTE (taphasms @ Thu, 10 Apr 2008 - 19:29) *
Is it ever possible that the person that does the calculation of the two copies gets it wrong sometimes???

Of course.
taphasms
Thank you all for your help, but I am still stuck I really don't know what to do I still haven't filled in the NIP!
If i was really doing 49 I would put my hands up and would not even question!
Do I send them a letter or ring them and ask for the photos?

jobo
no you fill in the NIP wizard and then you can be advised properly
taphasms
Ok Sorry will Do!
jobo
do everthing in writing with proof of delivery
taphasms
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - April 2008
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A61 Scott Hall Road Leeds, Between Potternewton Lane & Sholebrook Mount
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Was doing 39 miles an hour in a 40 how ever I have just recoved a NIP, weird!

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:59:17 +0100
The Rookie
As has been said, you could have writen and ask for photo's 'to help confirm the drivers ID', whatever you have now backed yourself into a corner of either having to accept the CoFP or going to court (which will cost you more if you loose) and hoping the evidence shows you not speeding.

You will now need to supply the drivers details within the 28 days you permitted from receipt of the NIP.

Hopefully a mod will get rid of your multiple wizard outputs!

Simon
taphasms
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 30 Apr 2008 - 15:50) *
As has been said, you could have writen and ask for photo's 'to help confirm the drivers ID', whatever you have now backed yourself into a corner of either having to accept the CoFP or going to court (which will cost you more if you loose) and hoping the evidence shows you not speeding.

You will now need to supply the drivers details within the 28 days you permitted from receipt of the NIP.

Hopefully a mod will get rid of your multiple wizard outputs!

Simon


Thank you, you have been most helpful!
Cornucopia
QUOTE (taphasms @ Wed, 30 Apr 2008 - 17:58) *
Thank you, you have been most helpful!


Sadly tact is frequently not a skill often displayed by many serving traffic police officers such as The Rookie. Also the so called fantastic advice from the NIP wizard on this site is not fantastic by encouraging people to get involved with solicitors who charge £150 an hour or more at an early stage after having received an NIP. I notice a sort of aggressive tone here from some forum regulars that this is all your fault rather than being mainly the fault of the Police for agreeing to the installation of a near Stalinist system of monitoring the driver at almost every turn that criminalises driving that is not unsafe and even makes mistakes by wrongly detected motorists that have not committed an offence.

Getting to court is not a good option as fines and costs and even points can go up there. I would try writing or better emailing the Chief Constable and/or Head of Traffic Policing for this Force (their switchboard will have details of who the Head of Traffic Policing is) pointing out that you regularly drive this road, know the speed camera in question and are convinced that you were not travelling above the speed limit and are sure it malfunctioned and that you have a completely lean licence (if the case) etc. I would ask them to check if they have had many similar complaints from motorists who think they were not travelling above the speed limit.

If you make enough fuss and write in such a way that you convey you think that you are innocent then they may decide not to issue proceedings as cases in court from motorists who maintain the equipment malfunctioned and have clean records and are very convincing witnesses create bad press for the Police in local newspapers. Especially if you win.

If I were you I would try writing to their Chief Traffic Police Officer and/or The Chief Constable suggesting a gross injustice has been done here and that the simplest way to remedy this is to not issue proceedings. The Police have total discretion to not issue proceedings and I believe the better forces do actually do this where the public alerts them the case may not go their way and the driver has a clean license. If you have one or certain two previous speeding or driving convictions then will certainly not be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Ignore those who refer to courts and what happens in court as you want to do everything you humanly can at this stage to not get to court. Some on here seem to just think in terms of court and engaging solicitors and in my view this is irresponsible as some Police forces do discontinue action when they are persuaded a mistake has been made and this is far better, simpler and less risky for you than having to fight the case in court.

If you write in you cause a hold flag to be placed on your case until a response has been prepared and sometimes that hold flag is then inadvertently never lifted by the Police. biggrin.gif
Cornucopia
P.S. 49mph is now a speed at which many Police forces would offer you a speed awareness course. Typically they don't take action until 10% +2mph above the limit = 46mph. They then allow the next 4mph over the limit - 46, 47, 48 and 49 mph to go on a speed awareness course instead of getting a fixed penalty as long as you don't have previous valid speeding convictions on your licence.

It depends on the force. Thames Valley only used to offer the course at 46mph and 47mph but now also offer it for 48mph and 49mph in a 40mph zone.

I think you should write in suggesting you were within the limit for a speed awareness course, even if you were over the limit which you don't accept due to the circumstances, so why have they not even given you that option?
jobo
if your mad at the system then dont take it out on us

people are sometimes a bit sharp and sometimes its just the way you choose to interprit whats writen
But most times people are just telling you the truth as they see it

however wish you well with your appealing to threre better nature stratergy
The Rookie
QUOTE (Cornucopia @ Fri, 2 May 2008 - 15:53) *
serving traffic police officers such as The Rookie.


Which I am not and never have been, so good or bad, don't tar us with the same brush!

Cornucopia is wearing his rose tinted glasses here, no-one advoctae the unnecesary use of solicitors, and there was little point the regulars spending time suggesting the OP get photo's and expalining how to do it if he intended to ignore what was said...



Simon
taphasms
Right well I sent in a letter a week ago and I got some photo's sent through in the post and it doesn't seem to be the fixed camera that was on that road, it is a head on photo and this fixed camera takes them after the car goes past them. I think from looking at the photo's it is 300m before the fixed camera so they must of had van parked up which I didn't notice!
I was probably doing 49mph @ the time so I'm gonna take my punishment, sorry for rattling any cages with this post!
I can post the photo's up if any wants to have a look, just tell me what i need to remove with paint shop before i do.
bama
always worth a look at the pics IMV. remove number plate for sure - and numbers that id the speciifc offense if you want to (the scamerati can always just look through their photos and match it up whatever you blank out) and offense code but leave in the distance reading.
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