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Full Version: NCP - PCN - But no ticket on my car
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
gingerkev
I drive a company car, and recieved a letter from my Vehicle leasing company with regards to a letter they had recieved from NCP Parking Services. (I have done some investigation and its turns out its from Roxborough Debt Collectors)

The unpaid parking fine they are chasing is for £85. The issue date was 8-11-07, i found out today !

I believe the fine increased to £50 after 14 days and an extra £35 for Admin is on top.

The issue i have is that when I returned to my car on that date there was no PCN attached to my car.

The first I knew of it is when my company recieved a letter from the Vehicle leasing company and passed it to me.

I have emailled someone within NCP saying the following

"In the first instance, a parking fine was not attached to this vehicle on this date. Should a parking fine have been attached, and providing it was a valid PCN, then the fine would have been paid in full and on time, however this was not possible as not parking fine was attached to the vehicle.

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Secondly, I notice that the total amount due is £85, which I presume is a larger figure than the original “fine” and includes admin costs and later payment charges perhaps? I am also therefore questioning the amount of the “fine” as to pay a fine on time, one has to receive it in the first instance.

Thirdly, as per our terms and conditions with our leasing company, we have incurred a cost of £11.16 (inc VAT) for the recharge of the PCN to us. Again I am questioning us having to pay this charge, as the correspondence would not have been necessary if we would have received the parking fine in the first place.

[size="2"]Please can you confirm that you will cancel the above PCN and arrange for the £11.16 to be paid back to us in full?"

I do not expect a positive response to my email, so Id like to be informed for when they do come back to me

What is the situation with regards to payment of a PCN when there was not one on my vehicle?

What steps should i take, what are the risks?

Thanks for all your help in advance


Alexis
Read the private parking FAQ.

Private companies, like NCP, only issue unenforceable invoices. Only councils can fine you.

All you have to do is ignore them and they will eventually go away. Ignore their hollow threats of court action and CCJs.

With regard to the £11.16 - if you've paid the lease company this, you must pursue them for a refund.
bama
Is this a Council PCN issued by NCP or one of NCPs own PPC type invoices ?
As no Inpaper seems to have been attached to the vehicle it may well be the PPC type (but someonbe could have swiped off a coincuil ticket I suppose).
By all means scan, wash and post up any paperwork from NCP.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autoco...ticle&id=16

What EXACTLY does the lease say about paying 'Fines' et al ?
Alexis
It won't be a council ticket with admin fees.

Usual private unenforceable claptrap.

What's the leasing company who are passing on the letters?
nimh999
QUOTE (Alexis @ Tue, 25 Mar 2008 - 17:02) *
It won't be a council ticket with admin fees.

Usual private unenforceable claptrap.

What's the leasing company who are passing on the letters?
Not strictly true. It is possible that this is a council PCN. NCP seem to have two arms. One which is council contracted PCN's and the other is the crap invoices masquerading as PCN's.

If a lease company was involved and this was a council PCN, what may happen is that the lease company are sent the NTO. They have an agreement with the lessee who would be responsible for payment of the PCN. The lease company would pay the PCN and then charge the lessee an administration fee and the penalty charge for handling the PCN.

Ideally gingerkev should scan the "PCN" remove all personal details including barcodes and post the results here.

Edit. Having reread the post there is a good chance this is a PPC because Roxburghe are involved.
whitewing
Theer are 2 contracts you need to look at, the lease co. one and your contract of employment.
Unless BOTH of these cover 'parking fees, charges' etc. as opposed to just 'PCNs, fines, penalties ' etc. then you don't have any liability, and your employer cannot legally deduct from your wages.
If they both do, you can sue the PPC for the fee plus lease co charges.
If the Lease co. one does, but yours doesn't, it's down to your employer to sue the PPC for the fee + lease co charges
If the Lease co. one doesnt ( only including fines, PCNs etc.) your employer should tell the lease co to shove it.

Ocelot
QUOTE (Alexis @ Tue, 25 Mar 2008 - 13:20) *
Private companies, like NCP, only issue unenforceable invoices. Only councils can fine you.


Can even they 'fine' you? I believe they have certain legal powers to chase a debt, more so than PPCs, but (and I may be wrong) I think only courts have the power to fine.
sarahg1969
Councils can't fine you as such, but they can issue penalties; the police are the same. You can only receive a fine from a Court. You would receive a fine if you have been found guilty of an offence in Court (inluding failure to pay a penalty).

However, to all intents and purposes, the penalty you receive from the council or the police IS a fine.

An invoice from a PPC, however, most definitely is NOT.
bama
QUOTE (whitewing @ Tue, 25 Mar 2008 - 18:14) *
Theer are 2 contracts you need to look at, the lease co. one and your contract of employment.
Unless BOTH of these cover 'parking fees, charges' etc. as opposed to just 'PCNs, fines, penalties ' etc. then you don't have any liability, and your employer cannot legally deduct from your wages.
If they both do, you can sue the PPC for the fee plus lease co charges.
If the Lease co. one does, but yours doesn't, it's down to your employer to sue the PPC for the fee + lease co charges
If the Lease co. one doesnt ( only including fines, PCNs etc.) your employer should tell the lease co to shove it.


Nice summary whitewing ! Can this make it into a FAQ/wiki ? it comes up a lot. for 'some' reason PPCs love to see number plates with a lease company name printed on them...

Alexis
QUOTE
Not strictly true. It is possible that this is a council PCN. NCP seem to have two arms. One which is council contracted PCN's and the other is the crap invoices masquerading as PCN's.


No council issued Penalty Charge Notice can be increased by a £35 administration charge.

The only options are a reduced rate before 14 days and a 50% increase for issuing a Charge Certificate.
nimh999
QUOTE (Alexis @ Wed, 26 Mar 2008 - 00:12) *
QUOTE
Not strictly true. It is possible that this is a council PCN. NCP seem to have two arms. One which is council contracted PCN's and the other is the crap invoices masquerading as PCN's.


No council issued Penalty Charge Notice can be increased by a £35 administration charge.

The only options are a reduced rate before 14 days and a 50% increase for issuing a Charge Certificate.

No. Read all of my original post and don't be selective. If (and I say if) this was a council PCN for a leased vehicle, then the NTO would go to the lease company. The lease company would normally have an agreement with the lessee. This agreement would normally have a clause in it where the lease company would pay the PCN and then charge the lessee an administration fee plus the Penalty Charge.

I have agreed that in this instance it seems like a PPC because Roxburghe are involved.
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