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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] We cant identify driver,what do we do,help please!!!!
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superbike wholesale ltd
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - December 2007
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 13 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A338 Wessex Way Bournemouth nr Queens park Wbd
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company owned and registered vehicle,my name not on V5
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - We received a NIP on the above date for our company vehicle on a road close to where we operate.Because it is used by several employees we are unable to determine who nwas driving at the time.We asked for photographic evidence which was duly sent but unable to determine who was driving.We have written to Dorset Police stating that unable to verify driver but confirmed the vehicle is ours.Received letter today stating that case referred to Magistrate for consideration to prosecute under section 172 and for the magistrate to decide whether due diligence has been excersised in identifying the driver.What do i do now!Any help much appreciated.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:58:35 +0000
Pete D
If this was a Camera Van then go and view the video 'by appointment' as that is regarded as reasonable diligence. The camera often keeps the car in the field of view until it is quite close and you may be able to idenify the person. Do not say anything when there just thank them and leave. If this was a Gatso shop then it's a lot more difficult to identify the driver but an s172 failure to furnish now carries 6 points on an MS90 offence code and insurance companies love hiking the rates up for that. Pete D
bama
check out 'reasonable diligence' here.

you will have to check work logs and records etc to establish reasonable diligence. lots of posts about this.

did their response really say due diligence ?

Who is the NIP addressed to ? is it you ? who was the 'person keeping the vehicle' at the time of the alledged offense ?
spanner345
Assuming your company is limited, the question is "who gets the points"

If no-one can be pointed, just pay the fine maybe.
Gaza
QUOTE (Pete D @ Wed, 20 Feb 2008 - 15:14) *
If this was a Camera Van then go and view the video 'by appointment' as that is regarded as reasonable diligence. The camera often keeps the car in the field of view until it is quite close and you may be able to idenify the person. Do not say anything when there just thank them and leave. If this was a Gatso shop then it's a lot more difficult to identify the driver but an s172 failure to furnish now carries 6 points on an MS90 offence code and insurance companies love hiking the rates up for that. Pete D


From the locus I'm 99.9% ceertain it is the Gatso HERE. I was caught by this one at 58mph (50 limit). I pass it every day but on the day in question I forgot where I was. Did a Driver Awareness Course and avoid the points.
Gaza
QUOTE (superbike wholesale ltd @ Wed, 20 Feb 2008 - 14:58) *
What do i do now!Any help much appreciated


Unfortunatley there is not a lot you can do until you have your day in court. You will have to go some to convince the mags you could not reasonably identify the driver. They will probably insist that you should have kept driver logs.

The case below is what happens when the plod are unable to identify the driver:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2014539.stm

Our old friend Meredydd Hughes also had to cough up for a similar offense:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_y...ire/6215293.stm

Based on these two stroies expect a fine of about £500 but you should escape points if the van is registered to a Limited Co.

superbike wholesale ltd
Hi,thanks for all your responses,it was a fixed Gatso.The photos they sent are from the rear of the pickup,the sun is very low and its impossible to identify which of our staff was driving.The truck is registered to our Limited Company.I have sent a letter to confirm that it is our vehicle but cannot positively identify who was driving.The letter today states"As we received notification that you are unable to provide the driver identity,then we have no alternative but to prepare the file for consideration of prosecution under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.The Magistrate would be in a position to decide whether reasonable diligence has been exercised in order to ascertain the driver of the vehicle".
I spoke to the Central Ticket Office and explained that although it was our vehicle i could not definitely identify which of our staff was driving at the time.Their repsonse was just to send in the NIP with a covering letter explaining the facts and it probably wouldnt go any further.That doesnt seem to be the case however as i have now received this letter.We dont keep vehicle movement logs and i think that i have done all i can other than providing a list of staff who may have been driving,doesnt really narrow it down though.
Really dont know how to proceed further,any clues please!
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (spanner345 @ Wed, 20 Feb 2008 - 15:37) *
Assuming your company is limited, the question is "who gets the points"
If no-one can be pointed, just pay the fine maybe.

Neither limited companies, nor their officers under the negligence / connivance provisions, can get points for S172.
The Rookie
If you can demonstrate that 'reasonable dillignce' was used you may have a defence, you will also need to be able to show it was reasonable for the company to not keep records.

As part of that dilligence, you need to write to the scammers giving all the details of all possible drivers, and list everything done to try and find out who was driving, after all strictly the driver is under no legal obligation to tell you, but they are the Police (handy if you want to defend this and the Scammers don't NIP all named possibles)

Simon
superbike wholesale ltd
Hi there,
The company is a Limited liability Co,we use casual drivers as well as permanent staff.have gone through fuel receipts etc but no closer to ID the driver.Quite happy for the Co to pay the fine,i have confirmed with Ticket office that it is our vehicle.Should i just sit tight and wait to see if they are going to proceed via magistrate?
Many thanks
Chas820
QUOTE
you need to write to the scammers giving all the details of all possible drivers,


I would try and do this include the casuals as well,you must know their names unless you are in the habit of letting anybody drive off in your expensive pick up.Mention that you have asked everybody concerned if it was them,plus those fuel receipts of course,plus ask the police if there is anything else they could suggest.You should put this in writing as it will count as part of your defence should it go to the magistrates,the scammers will probably deny receiving a phone call,send it by recorded delivery so that you have a signed receipt for it(so they cant deny receiving it).If you can show the reasonable diligence you could save your co a very hefty fine.
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (Chas820 @ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 - 16:44) *
If you can show the reasonable diligence you could save your co a very hefty fine.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 - 13:46) *
you will also need to be able to show it was reasonable for the company to not keep records.


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