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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
mikeyl
Hi All,

Travelling on the M4 last Saturday, outside lane, moderate traffic as was in the morning.

I spot a traffic car on one of the laybys, I pass it and check the rear mirror. They pull out and on come the blues, my heart sinks and I pull over.

Policeman gets out, so do I and then he asks me to get into the back of his car.

Asks for name and address, I supply it.

He then explains the laser gun he has, think its a LT20?

I nod mutely, he then shows me the figure on the back.....oops 102mph.

Then the range it was taken at 375m

He then gives me a producer and reads me my rights.

He then wants some ID and then let me on my way.

The questions I have are

1. What would I expect to receive? Ban? Points? Fine?
2. Was suprised that it was so fast, considering there was a few cars around. Are they reliable?

What should I do now?

Thanks in advance.
Mika
Hi,

If they were using the LTi 20-20, you may be able to use a recent case to your advantage.

In this case, the defendant proved that the LTi 20-20 was unreliable. icon_redface.gif

Have you considered consulting a specialist? icon_idea.gif
Bob_Sprocket
Hi,

I did 35 (mmm yes officer) over the limit on a 60 MPH 'A' road on my motor bike and was not banned I just got a fine of £600 £45 costs and 6 pts. They were specifically targetting bikes doing 30 + over so I was part of their propoganda. I was done by a Pro-Laser III which is supposed to be much more accurate than the Lti 20:20 but that might be so much BS.

I know of two people who were doing 105 ish on a motorway, in a car,who have not been banned.

Worse case if you have a clean licence at present and you do a good mitigation you should not (probably) be banned but I think that, unless you are out of work, you will probably have a big fine and probably 5 or 6 pts.

The question is, should you fight it?

Best wishes

Bob
mikeyl
Yes I would, can you recommend any?

I thought I would post the circumstances, to see if it is worthwhile challenging it, or to accept it.

Obviously I will accept any consequences of my actions, but I would like to make 100% sure that if I am getting done for 102mph, that the speed and procedure was 100% correct. IYSWIM.
Bob_Sprocket
Hi Mickey,

The blue writing in Mika's post is a link to a specialist.

Best wishes

Bob
mikeyl
Just realized that the top speed on my car is 109mph!
matt1133
what type of car/litre do you drive?
mikeyl
10yr old Pug 306 XTDT - 125k miles on the clock.

Hardly sports car material.
mikeyl
Do I have to plead Not Guilty before they will allow me to see the evidence?

As I do not think there is any video evidence, only the number on the back of the gun.
Bob_Sprocket
Hi Mickey,

The only evidence will be a a witness statement from the plod/s that stopped you. When you get your summons this will/should be attached to it. Read eveything very carefully when it comes he may make a fatal mistake.

Once you get your summons post the details here and a few folks will wade in to debate possible approaches for you. Given the circumstances you describe there is not a lot you can do until then.

Best wishes

Bob
mikeyl
Summons arrived on the mat yesterday.

Have been summoned to appear in Chippenham Magistrates Court on 18th October, accused of exceeding 70mph on a Motorway.

Included with the summons came

Staetment of Facts
Notice of Plea
Statement of Income and Outgoings
Notice to Defendant:Proof by Written Statement
Statement by the copper - looks like it is a standard form where he has just crossed out the lines, will scan it in if I can.

Am considering a solicitor, but after gettting quotes of £6-700 & VAT, I am wondering how much they can reduce the possible punishment.


So what to do next?
Mika
Mike,

In my opinion, the question is for you to answer: do you want to fight this, or would you prefer to accept that you were travelling at 102 mph and try minimising the damage?

In Wiltshire, they will probably give you a ban and fine for driving at 102 mph on the M4.

However, following the recent South Yorkshire case, someone needs to take the question of the reliability of the LTi 20-20 to the high court and I may already have all the required evidence, that proves it is fundamentally unreliable. icon_wink.gif

If you intend to fight, then enter a plea of not guilty and nothing will happen on the 18th of October. However, if you intend to plead guilty, I would suggest that you send Bob Sprocket a PM and ask him if you can ‘borrow’ his mitigation speech. icon_idea.gif
mikeyl
I mentioned to a solicitor who was extremly helpful, regarding a Not Guilty plea.

The main thing holding me back is the prohibitive cost of using an independent expert regarding the LTI 20/20 at £900+ per day.

I obvioulsy would like to not get convicted but they make it very difficult to go down this route costwise.

Can I ask what evidence you have Mika? If it is substantial enough I may consider going down this route as it may be of benefit for us all.

Let me know via PM if you are interested.

Thanks,
peteturbo
Mikeyl;

What is an expert? Where did you get that quotation? What are the gentleman's credentials?

These are serious questions, becasue its the first time I'm aware of an 'expert' selling his time. The only expert to date is the manufacturer!

Peteturbo
mikeyl
If a LTi 20/20 laser was used, can I ask for the video evidence to be disclosed?

If so will I have to plead not Guilty or can I get it adjourned until I see the evidence?

Will doing this affect the case before coming to court?
mikeyl
If a LTi 20/20 laser was used, can I ask for the video evidence to be disclosed?

If so will I have to plead not Guilty or can I get it adjourned until I see the evidence?

Will doing this affect the case before coming to court?
Tamara-D
QUOTE (mikeyl)
If a LTi 20/20 laser was used, can I ask for the video evidence to be disclosed?

As long as it was connected to video recording equipment, then yes.
QUOTE (mikeyl)
If so will I have to plead not Guilty or can I get it adjourned until I see the evidence?

You will have to plead not guilty before you can request disclosure.
QUOTE (mikeyl)
Will doing this affect the case before coming to court?

Im not sure what you mean here, but you can change your plea back to guilty at any time. You may get a slightly increased fine and costs. (If you get convicted that is icon_wink.gif )
Mika
Mike,

There won’t be a traffic video in your case and that could be a good thing. icon_wink.gif

It’s too complicated to discuss on the forum so if you’re “up for it”, send me a PM. icon_idea.gif
markav15
you wont be able to see the evidence until you enter a plea of not guilty.

if it was a hand held device without video, then the only evidence will be
the plods statement. If it had a video attatched then fight all the way because they will not disclose the full session video at any cost (well they didn't for me and dropped two charges)

if it was hand held, get a copy of the ACPO manual read all the rules about using a hand held gun as theres plenty of them.

good luck.
Mika
Mark,

In my opinion, it doesn’t necessarily matter that there is no video in this case.

We may now have all the evidence that is required to prove that the LTi 20-20 is fundamentally unreliable; so all we may need to do now, is to present that evidence to a court that understands what the words “reasonable doubt” mean.

I have a few additional questions for their learned lordships, like how and who granted the device Home Office Type Approval, in the first place. icon_redface.gif
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