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Slow Driver
Seems a little unfair doesn't it. Try to save a life and they refuse to cancel the ticket. Tossers

clark_kent
How can a child be the registered keeper, surely that is not legal?
sarahg1969
I think anyone can be the registered keeper of a vehicle, can't they?

ETA: Just found this

It is not illegal to register a vehicle in a child's name but where the child is under the legal limit for prosecution i.e. 10 years old and is referred to in law as dolce incapax then the registration must be by a responsible adult who signing as such becomes responsible for the vehicle and therefore responsible for the penalties imposed for any offence committed. Where the child is over 10 years old and in law able to be prosecuted the Police will look to who bought the vehicle, who registered the vehicle, who uses the vehicle and whose name the vehicle is insured in (note insurance companies will not enter into a contract of insurance with a child without a valid drivers licence). I would not recommend anyone attempt to avoid criminal responsibility by registering a vehicle in their or a child's name.
Barnsley Boy
Just when you think these guys can't stoop any lower!
Slow Driver
Horrifying really isn't it. I've heard of other PAs booking vehicles involved in serious accidents while the passengers are still waiting for the emergency services.

It's rather pahetic how people have lost any common sense they once had. It seems that the common garden slug has mre common sense than some parking staff.
Wayne Pendle
QUOTE (sarahg1969 @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 14:03) *
I think anyone can be the registered keeper of a vehicle, can't they?

ETA: Just found this

It is not illegal to register a vehicle in a child's name but where the child is under the legal limit for prosecution i.e. 10 years old and is referred to in law as dolce incapax then the registration must be by a responsible adult who signing as such becomes responsible for the vehicle and therefore responsible for the penalties imposed for any offence committed. Where the child is over 10 years old and in law able to be prosecuted the Police will look to who bought the vehicle, who registered the vehicle, who uses the vehicle and whose name the vehicle is insured in (note insurance companies will not enter into a contract of insurance with a child without a valid drivers licence). I would not recommend anyone attempt to avoid criminal responsibility by registering a vehicle in their or a child's name.



Where did you find that Sarah? I haven't seen it on a V5 and to the best of my knowledge there is no such requirement; as there is no such thing as a registered owner, i'd love to find out how the old bill would be able be able 'go after' the person who paid for the vehicle. Sounds like a load of waffle.
sarahg1969
Someone was questioning whether or not they could register their vehicle in a child's name, so that they could avoid speeding penalties, etc. If the child receives a NIP and fails to respond, they would not be prosecuted under s172.

Slow Driver
QUOTE (Wayne Pendle @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 14:27) *
I haven't seen it on a V5 and to the best of my knowledge there is no such requirement; as there is no such thing as a registered owner,


Your right about the registered owner thing - It is only the registered keeper on the V5 and even that is really rather stupid as the vehicle can be kept anywhere - especially when you have no private off road parking and have to struggle to find a space on a daily basis.

Rather daft isn't it how behind the times the ministers are..
whitewing
To add insult to injury, as the Motability vehicle is registered to the youngster, she is the one the company, ANPR International, has fined.

This appears to be a PPC scammer not a real fine.
Glacier2
As this is a PPC ticket, the usual advice should be applied. I have posted a comment in the newspaper thread.
clark_kent
QUOTE (Slow Driver @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 14:21) *
Horrifying really isn't it. I've heard of other PAs booking vehicles involved in serious accidents while the passengers are still waiting for the emergency services.

It's rather pahetic how people have lost any common sense they once had. It seems that the common garden slug has mre common sense than some parking staff.



I doubt the person issuing the 'parking ticket' knew the person was in the Cinema having a fit, although it could have have been cancelled afterwards. Sadly a lot of people do lie to get off parking fines and will stoop to any level to escape paying, although I'm not saying its the case here. You only have to look at how many people steal or borrow blue badges to park free to see how low people sink. A recent purge by my local police found 50% of the BB in town where not being used by the holders.
leegomery16
There appears to be no need to lie in this case as it's a PPC ticket and unenforceable anyway, isn't it?
clark_kent
QUOTE (leegomery16 @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 15:55) *
There appears to be no need to lie in this case as it's a PPC ticket and unenforceable anyway, isn't it?



Sadly not everyone realises that fact.
madmoe
if you do read more then you notice that
QUOTE
as the Motability vehicle is registered to the youngster

the mother say the
QUOTE
with her daughter Tallulah Kneath when the eight-year-old had a massive fit

and pointed above it is a Motability vehicle I think it is a hire one and that why it was sent to the daughter as she is the one the vehicle is for .
as for the ticket and lie I am not sure why park that fare from where the cinema is
QUOTE
Ms Campbell parked across the road outside Homebase

I know this town and I can say it is really long way from where the cinema is and the car parked , the car park out side the cinema do get full easy wonder why Ms Campbell who don't live that fare from the town center did not know that and give her self time .
Slow Driver
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 15:35) *
QUOTE (Slow Driver @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 14:21) *
Horrifying really isn't it. I've heard of other PAs booking vehicles involved in serious accidents while the passengers are still waiting for the emergency services.

It's rather pahetic how people have lost any common sense they once had. It seems that the common garden slug has mre common sense than some parking staff.



I doubt the person issuing the 'parking ticket' knew the person was in the Cinema having a fit, although it could have have been cancelled afterwards. Sadly a lot of people do lie to get off parking fines and will stoop to any level to escape paying, although I'm not saying its the case here. You only have to look at how many people steal or borrow blue badges to park free to see how low people sink. A recent purge by my local police found 50% of the BB in town where not being used by the holders.



Tell me about it. The number of people I've caught recently with other peoples disabled badges is shocking.

Obviously the person who issued the ticket has no way of knowing the circumstances at the time, but I would assume that the mother has some sort of documentary evidence - IE from the cinema first aiders or ambulance/hospital. I know many people lie about things to try and get off - the amounf of times we hear the excuse "I wasn't even there" yet the funny thing is we still managed to record the tax disc unique serial number at the time of issue in the pocket book!
Slow Driver
QUOTE (madmoe @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 17:02) *
I know this town and I can say it is really long way from where the cinema is and the car parked , the car park out side the cinema do get full easy wonder why Ms Campbell who don't live that fare from the town center did not know that and give her self time .



She probably did but you can't predict medical emergencies. They can strike at any time. In a case like this, no penalty should be upheld.
leegomery16
QUOTE (Slow Driver @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 17:09) *
QUOTE (madmoe @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 17:02) *
I know this town and I can say it is really long way from where the cinema is and the car parked , the car park out side the cinema do get full easy wonder why Ms Campbell who don't live that fare from the town center did not know that and give her self time .



She probably did but you can't predict medical emergencies. They can strike at any time. In a case like this, no penalty should be upheld.


Especially as it's an invoice from a private company.
madmoe
QUOTE
you can't predict medical emergencies

it is just odd that
QUOTE
youngster suffers from multiple profound disability and is blind and epileptic

go to see a film but it let say she did then some time in the film she have seizure wonder why on earth no one did not call 999 .
if the mother or the Odeon cinema staff did call 999 ( I think by law they should have)why not ask the amblance to send her proof
QUOTE
any seizure could potentially claim her life
or did she not call for help or the Odeon cinema in Parc Tawe did not know about it .
what I am saying is please don't use your youngster ill health it is unfair to the child .
I know it is private company ticket but if the mother was found to lie in any way how that going help any one in real medical emergencies next time .
His Grace
[soapbox]

Since the charge is probably unenforceable, and the driver concerned is apparently not here, there is arguably no need to prolong the discussion.

However, the inference to be drawn from the woman's reported comments to the newspaper is that, had she not been distracted by the child's seizure, she would have left the cinema and moved the car before it was ticketed. I wonder if she would have done that.

Happily, the "life-threatening" seizure appears not to have foreshortened their stay and it seems that the child survived without benefit of any professional emergency treatment. Since no mention is made of cinema staff or other parties being involved, one might wonder whether anybody was disturbed, or even noticed, during the screening of the film.

Is there the slightest chance, do you suppose, that the good lady simply got a ticket and thought that "gilding the lily" about her daughter's condition would elicit such overwhelming public support that the charge would be withdrawn on compassionate grounds ? Failing that, perhaps her sad tale might provoke a kindly benefactor to cover the charge.

I do not wish to diminish the sympathy anyone has for a child with epilepsy but, in my experience, very few disabled people are comfortable with the way in which some seek to milk public sympathy for their own ends.

In a case like this, where someone has co-operated with the Press for such obvious reasons, I would prefer that the details be investigated more fully before making any allowance for the alleged emergency. Someone has behaved badly and it would be useful to know who that is before deciding whether support, or censure, is due the complainant.

[\soapbox]
leegomery16
I see the point you are making.

However, the daughter's medical condition is irrelevant to this discussion as far as the enforceablility of the "ticket" goes. I believe that the lady in question deserves as much support as anyone else who is given such an invoice.

It might be nice to know the full facts but I don't think they will alter the advice given.
clark_kent
Totally agree god knows what the seizure had to do with it at all since she was in Homebase car park, saying she was at the Cinema instead of buying some nice new shelves was never really going to win over the parking co. rolleyes.gif
His Grace
QUOTE (leegomery16 @ Sun, 13 Jan 2008 - 19:41) *
I see the point you are making.

However, the daughter's medical condition is irrelevant to this discussion as far as the enforceablility of the "ticket" goes. I believe that the lady in question deserves as much support as anyone else who is given such an invoice.

It might be nice to know the full facts but I don't think they will alter the advice given.



Yes, you're quite right, of course.

I do try to walk round that particular soapbox without mounting it. Truly I do blush.gif

Note to self: Must do better.
leegomery16
Soapboxes are like triple chocolate gateax - too tempting!
Glacier2
Seeing as the driver in this case has gone to the press and admitted to being the driver, could the PPC now sue her armed with her admission. Would the claim succeed?
leegomery16
No. There's still the issues of offer and acceptance, terms of contract, unfair terms and penalty clauses for the PPC to overcome.
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