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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
mustdash
Please forgive this post, but being new to this aspect of fighting for whats right (am a dab hand at bank baiting though!), I was wondering if anyone with some more experience could offer some advice. My girlfriend recieved a "Penalty Charge Notice" whilst parked on private land last week. Thy fee is £60, reduced to £40 if paid by the end of this week (that aint gonna happen!). I will scan the ticket and sleeve it came in tomorrow, as I dont have it to hand. The 'notice' makes a claim of "if no payment is recieved, our recovery dept. will enqire with the DVLA (dont we just love our Data Protection laws?) for the registered keeper details. If still no payment is recieved then we will instruct our solicitors and you may incurr extra court costs". This isn't the exact wording, but is pretty close. Can anyone offer any advice?

bama
1) ignore it and file it in the drawer
2) read the PPC faq that hangs off the Read This sticky at the top of this forum.
3) read some on the many posts about scumbags PPCs
4) do not contact them/engage with them.

what company issued this unenforceable invoice ?
Ocelot
If the ticket was a Penalty Charge Notice, are you sure it was a private company? If so, don't pay. Private parking tickets are merely invoices inviting you yto pay their charge. They may be breaking the law if they called their ticket a Penalty Charge Notice.

My post on
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=25866&hl=
or the many stickies or other threads should explain the situation.
mustdash
Bama - Thanks for the advice - I have read the FAQ's, but have also read elsewhere that each case is different depending on the wording on the invoice, so thought I'd ask case specific questions. The comapny that issued it is called LPS (Local Parking Security) Ltd. I think they are a company local to Stratford on Avon. The sleeve it came in said "Penalty Charge Notice" and the ticket also states the word penalty on it.
bama
we need to know of this is a scumbag PPC invoice or issued by a company representing the Council.
wording aloone doesn't identify it as many scumbags PPC actually fake and lie - a LOT.
pic would help - wash it of personal details first.

is the address for payment a P.O box ?

edit addition.
a quick google nails them as a PPC - typical hide behind a P.O box thing, see
www.localbrit.co.uk/business/local-parking-security-ltd
mustdash
It is definately a private company - I work for the local council (not in Parking though!) and know that the PA's dont patrol the car park that it was issued on. The payment address is a P.O. Box number in Stratford. I will scan it in and get it up (ooo-er!) tomorrow!
bama
no real need to scan now we have Id'd them.
just file in drawer and ignore these cowboys.
their website even calls them "Penalty Charge Notices".

they are NOT PCNs a fact you may like to draw attention to the legal bods at the Council. LPS is faking official tickets and using protected terms - among many other trangressions...

or if you want some fun phone your council parking ticket bod (as a responsible employee) and attempt to pay the LPS PCN to the Council...
mustdash
Thanks. I am going to wait for them to contact us, before firing a letter off. Any ideas on the wording that I can use? Is it correct that under S40 of the Administration of Justice Act only the Police and Local authority (in decrim areas) can issue penalty charge notices?
bama
Cough...

4) do not contact them/engage with them.

waste of time and a stamp - they will just ignore everything you say, tell you your 'appeal' has failed and put you on the 'hooked fish' list for follow up.
to make it go away just file in drawer and ignore

if you want to play them in the very very very very slim hope that they take you to Court and have the time and the patience then have at it. but the chances are very very very very very very very very very very slim indeed.
if you do contact them do not state in any way who it was that parked the vehicle.

but - just ignore these fcukwits is best.

or just write this


Dear Mr R Evans,

Re Invoice number xxxnnnnn

There is NO way I will pay this unenforcable misleading piece of tat you call a "Penalty Charge Notice" ('PCN'). Of course as you well know it most definately is not a 'PCN'.

Would just love to see you in Court to settle this but as you know you will lose if you chose that route then the likelihood is zero. Which by a strange mathematical coincidence is exactly how much you will be getting from me.

I find the symmetry of this appeals to the mathematician in me. There is beauty in maths is there not ?

Yours

xxxx xxxxx
mustdash
Thanks, although like all newbies to this, I'm a tad worried that ignoring it will just escalate the cost!! Apparently the bloke who owns the company is happy to go to court (although that is hearsay so how true it is I dont know!). If they do threaten any sort of baliff / court action I'd like to know what aspects of the ticket they've screwed themselves into the ground with so I can fight back!
mustdash
laugh.gif Have just read your added letter!! Very, very good!! Cheers! laugh.gif
bama
suggest you re-read the FAq and the many threads here. You liability will not change.
scumbags PPC are running a Con game.

talk of court is usual and is pure B/S as is the baillifs bollox they spout.
e.g. read this
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=24362&hl=
and compare it the bollocks they spout.

One of the well know bigger PPC players advertises that they ALWAYS take unpaid invoices to Court. As far as we know on here they did it just once - and the judge chewed their nads off !!

You would not lose a properly defended case - NO ONE DOES.

re read rhe FAQq and the many posts about scumbags PPCs here.

Once you have your head around it tell ALL your friends about this scam !

mustdash
Have recieved a letter from LPS over the weekend stating that my girlfriend, as keeper of the vehicle, is responsible for payment, and that if she doesnt pay she will incurr extra costs etc. THe usual BS. However, I've just spoken to someone at their office (didnt say why I was calling etc) and just asked the dozy bint who answered the phone what area of UK law they work under - RTA etc. She said that they work under the BPA law????!! I tried to explain tha they were no more than a trade association and were unable to pass Acts through Parliment, but she wouldn't have it at all! Am going to invite them to a day in court at this rate - I'd love to see a judges face when they tell him that area of law. Maybe its something all the legal bods keep under their hat to surprise us unsuspecting civvies????
whitewing
QUOTE (mustdash @ Mon, 4 Feb 2008 - 13:08) *
Have recieved a letter from LPS over the weekend stating that my girlfriend, as keeper of the vehicle, is responsible for payment, and that if she doesnt pay she will incurr extra costs etc.


Sounds like a clear attempt to obtain money by deception to me.... Not the the Police would be interested - might be worth copying to Trading Standards though...
leegomery16
QUOTE (whitewing @ Mon, 4 Feb 2008 - 20:08) *
QUOTE (mustdash @ Mon, 4 Feb 2008 - 13:08) *
Have recieved a letter from LPS over the weekend stating that my girlfriend, as keeper of the vehicle, is responsible for payment, and that if she doesnt pay she will incurr extra costs etc.


Sounds like a clear attempt to obtain money by deception to me.... Not the the Police would be interested - might be worth copying to Trading Standards though...



Fraud by false representation. Obtaining property by deception is no longer an offence.
mustdash
QUOTE
Sounds like a clear attempt to obtain money by deception to me.... Not the the Police would be interested - might be worth copying to Trading Standards though...


I think that Warwickshire Police will be interested..... My other half just happens to be a Police Officer! She is already making noises at work about this! Watch this space! Trading standards are also on the list of people to speak to!
ncmoody
QUOTE (mustdash @ Tue, 5 Feb 2008 - 09:22) *
QUOTE
Sounds like a clear attempt to obtain money by deception to me.... Not the the Police would be interested - might be worth copying to Trading Standards though...


I think that Warwickshire Police will be interested..... My other half just happens to be a Police Officer! She is already making noises at work about this! Watch this space! Trading standards are also on the list of people to speak to!



I just hope she does not get told :-
Drop it, we are here to prosecute car owners nd drivers not to help them
mustdash
Good afternoon all. I posted here a few months ago in relation to a PPC issued invoice. I followed the advice here and have had the invoice cancelled. I have also made a complaint to Warwickshire Trading Standards, who today hav told me that they have investigated it and that no offences have been comittted - even though all the letters from the PPC state "registered keeper is liable" etc (the usual rubbish!). Has anyone got any advice as to where to go with this now, as I really want this PPC to get whats coming to them!
bama
TS is plain wrong.
Can you point us at the original thread please.
Also am sending you a PM..

I have not yet completed compiling a list of relevant legislation that PPCs breach on regular basis. This is made slower by the fact that I am not a lawyer but most of the stuff I have picked up is from the great and the good on here. It is apparent that there are more than just those in Legal Pete's excellent FAQ (as if that wasn't enough of a list !! i can undertand why he drew the line there).

I also have a 2006 version of list of applicable Acts (and SIs) that apply to duties of TS. That list will have changed a bit by now but the 2006 verision is 55 pages long..

Finalising these and then doing the mapping between them is the intention. Then any Acts in the list of PPCs transgression that do not fall to TS need to be found an enforcement home. When that home is the OFT it 'shouldn't' be too bad tying up the ends.
mustdash
THe original post is here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...=0&p=229789&#

THanks for the PM Bama. Will get it sorted!
The Rookie
I would try and arrange a face to face meeting and asking them to point out how no offence was commited , having the relevant laws in front of you to debunk their 'we can't be assed' arguments!

Simon
mustdash
Im going to be sending a letter I think with all the relevant legislation - I think a face to face meeting would let me lose my temper! At least the tone of a letter can be adjusted!
Fredd
merge
leegomery16
Oh dear... trading standards were obviously not awake!

Your OH should be able to point out the relevant legislation! In any case, the statement about the RK being liable is a clear breach of section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006.

If trading standards don't want to know then make a complaint to the police.
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