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poncho
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: -
Date of the NIP: -
Date you received the NIP: -
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): -
Was the NIP addressed to you? -
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? -
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? -
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:15:12 +0000
poncho
filled this in a while back, court hearing tues last,pleaded guilty with circumstances to get the case over with. now got a letter case adjourned till 6/5/08. it says please confirm whether you plead guilty because you accept guilt. the court will not accept a plea for convenience. how can a sp30 and a 172 be convenient to me! all i said in the mitigating letter was that i felt i had no option and i could not afford a solicitor and i have to be at work (contractor). what do they want! any ideas as to a response
southpaw82
QUOTE (poncho @ Fri, 25 Apr 2008 - 19:40) *
all i said in the mitigating letter was that i felt i had no option and i could not afford a solicitor and i have to be at work (contractor).


That'll be your problem. A guilty plea must be unequivocal and must be entered as an admission of guilty, as they say. Your answer seems to be "I'm not guilty but I'll plead guilty because it's too hard to plead not guilty." In short, the court must be sure that you accept you are guilty, it's only fair to you.

If you want to plead guilty then write back saying that you accept that you are guilty of the offence, then add any mitigation. What you said in your first reply (above) is not mitigation.




poncho
evening, thanks for the explanation, i have tried to find the rider of my bike at the time this happened (test ride, just a first name and left his keys as sercurity) but as i feel the odds are stacked agaist me i felt i had no option. maybe they thought i wasn't that concerned. trouble is pleading not guilty and loosing will be expensive. what to do?
southpaw82
If you're not guilty of the offence then I would always recommend pleading not guilty, as that is what you are. However, I recognise that not everyone is willing to put up the fight and go to court etc. Also, there are increased costs and a higher fine if you contest the matter and are convicted.

Perhaps if you were to state the full circumstances of the case we may be in a better position to help you.
poncho
Okay thanks, November last out on my bike,stopped at Bury hill south downs. Let a Guy test ride it for a potetial sale. Received NIP for speeding, wrote to sussex camera explaining the situation that it was not me and that i could not identify the rider at the time. received a letter saying failing to provide- £1000, six points. I went back to Bury hill and waited around for about 3 hours in the hope of seeing him,no joy. Wrote anther letter stating this but received no reply, filled in a 2nd NIP that came with the 1st letter giving my name. Received 2nd letter saying matter being passed to magistates, received summons, rang central ticket office at Shoreham advised by them to plead guilty with a letter explaining the facts.
southpaw82
QUOTE (poncho @ Fri, 25 Apr 2008 - 20:40) *
rang central ticket office at Shoreham advised by them to plead guilty with a letter explaining the facts.


Ha ha, no, really? laugh.gif I'd not take legal advice from the scammers if I were you.

Was your bike advertised for sale?
Was anyone with you?
Did you tell anyone about the test drive?
Did you get any details off him at all (mobile no etc)?
poncho
I know now! and no, no, yes just the wife when i got back home, and no he said his name was Robert rode up from Portsmouth for the day to the Downs like myself Honda 800 red, R reg, late 40's stocky build,well spoken, that's all i know. i told them this in the 1st letter. i think i'm stuffed!
southpaw82
The way I see it you have several options open to you:

1. Plead not guilty to both the speeding and the s. 172. The speeding should fail as they have no evidence of who the driver was. You can defend the s. 172 on the basis that you have exercised reasonable diligence but can not identify the driver. I can give you no guarantees that the magistrates will accept this. The only evidence would be your evidence under oath about the test rider. Your wife's evidence is, sadly, hearsay (though I'm thinkig of ways of admitting it).

2. Speak to the CPS and see if they'll take a plea to the speeding. I don't advise this though since it's not a case of you being unsure as to whether you are the driver or not - you are certain that you were not. Taking this route may well make you guilty of perverting the course of justice.

3. Plead guilty to the s. 172 and not guilty to the speeding. The speeding must fail as there is no evidence as to who the rider was. You can in fact argue that the speeding offence ought to be discontinued as there is no evidence of the rider: Hatton v CC of Devon and Cornwall.

4. Plead guilty to speeding and s. 172. I see no reason why you should do this.

What are the relevant dates of delivery of the NIP, s. 172 notice etc?
poncho
I thank you for your time and advice. The date of offence was 25/11/07. 1st NIP on 29/11/07. replied with letter 30/11/07. 1st letter failing to provide 6/12/07. returned to Bury Hill Sussex on 9/12/07. Sent letter 10/12/07. No reply. Sent 2nd NIP about 15/12/07. received notice being passed to magistrates 18/12/07. rang Shoreham 22/2/08. Court hearing 22/4/08. letter today adjournment for 6/5/08. Is it of any relivence?
southpaw82
Only if they'd screwed up the dates. Up to you then:

1. Fight and risk a higher fine and costs (but only 6 points).

2. Plead guilty and a smaller fine and costs but still 6 points.
Zed Victor One
QUOTE (poncho @ Fri, 25 Apr 2008 - 20:06) *
evening, thanks for the explanation, i have tried to find the rider of my bike at the time this happened (test ride, just a first name and left his keys as sercurity) but as i feel the odds are stacked agaist me i felt i had no option. maybe they thought i wasn't that concerned. trouble is pleading not guilty and loosing will be expensive. what to do?



If you weren't the rider at the time then clearly you should not be pleading guilty to something you haven't done. You may consider that you have exercised reasonable diligence in trying to find the rider but this sure as hell won't be the first time that the courts have heard some cock and bull story along the line of 'I was trying to sell it let an unidentified person take it for a test ride'.

Keys as security? there only security if you know that they own the vehicle to which they've left you the keys. There have been several occasions where the potential buyer has left keys and a vehicle never to be seen again as the vehicle they'd left was itself stolen.

Did they have insurance, 'He said he had', yep and I could say I'm Santa Claus but you'd have to see it to believe that as well.

I'm not typing this because I'm going to lose any sleep if you get acquitted, even if you're guilty, I say it because you need to realise that the consequences of letting an unknown person ride your bike could have been far worse.

Good luck with your case but wise up, you won't get a penny for your bike if some uninsured test jockey totals it!
poncho
Court yesterday. case dismissed. just wanted to say thanks to Southpaw82 for his help. one thing that this experience has shown me is the injustice of this legal system. i sat and watched low-life druggies pissed and out of thier heads taking it all as a big laugh knowing that the legal aid brief will get them off! I watched a middle aged woman be pysically sick with the worry of having to stand and face the court. I was ready to accept my fate until i saw all that but it made me fight and not give up. This without no legal help only what i had read on this forum, so take my experience and believe that you must try. I hope that i do not have to use the forum again(but i am not holding my breath). Once again thanks to Southpaw82 "defend yourself at all times ".

Chas820
Well done,a valuable lesson learned i hope,good advice from Southpaw82 and take note of the advice from ZV1.
The Rookie
Well done for standing up for yourself, one for success stories!

Simon
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