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alisha_2002
I received an NIP for doing 40 in a 30 from a red light camera. Time in red was shown as 0 seconds so believe only offence is speeding.

The issue is that I have primarily lived in the UK since 2003, i.e. more than 12 months. I have a valid Illinois (USA) driver's licence that was issued in April 2007 with my USA address. Because my original work permit was due to expire in August 2007, my company renewed the work permit and I was issued a new 'Residence Permit' dated July 2007 (it expires in 2010). I am the keeper of the car and it was bought in August 2007. I had moved home and have lease agreement start date July 2007.

How should I respond to the NIP? One suggestion is to answer 'yes' that I, as the keeper of the vehicle ,was the driver and at the same time supply a copy of my Illinois (USA) driver's licence issued April 2007 and a copy of residence permit issued July 07 and include the following note: Dear magistrate, I would like the penalty dealt with on the same basis as a UK driver accepting a fixed penalty of 60GBP with 3 points applied to my driving record should I apply for UK licence and no costs so as not to be disadvantaged by my nationality.

Is this a good approach or is more needed? Many thanks for any help to relieve my distress.

PS: I intended to apply for provisional licence a long time ago, however, the DVLA absolutely insists on me surrendering my passport to the DVLA for 3 weeks to confirm my identity. My job requires frequent and short notice international travel. USA does NOT allow its citizens to have a duplicate passport. In effect, surrendering my passport is like being under house arrest. For example, I am concerned that if I surrender my USA passport for 3 weeks, and a family member dies, I will be unable to attend their funeral. I was planning trip to see my son in America at Christmas, but as my punishment for this first ever UK traffic offence, I am planning instead to apply for my UK provisional licence with the pre-requisite 3 week international travel ban and just hope my family in the USA remains healthy. Alisha
Alisha_2002
Pete D
From what you have said your USA licence is no longer valid in the UK as there is a 12 month limit on it's us here in the UK.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=po...f=5&t=25623
The camera partnership/CPS will be aware of the date the vehicle was registered and may think that is when you entered the country. However if it comes to light that this is your second work permit then they may prosecute you for not having a valid UK licence. The court which you will highly probably have to attend will instruct the DVLA to award points onto a ghost UK licence and the points will appear when you pass your UK driving test.
"Dear magistrate, I would like the penalty dealt with on the same basis as a UK driver accepting a fixed penalty of 60GBP with 3 points applied to my driving record should I apply for UK licence and no costs so as not to be disadvantaged by my nationality. " This is not a good idea as you need to keep a low profile. Your recent US licence and Work Permit may just slip you under the radar but a court appearance is highly probable. You must stop driving immediately as you are not licenced to drive here and your insurance may well not be valid. Pete D
alisha_2002
Pete D,

Thanks for your advice. A couple questions.

1. Should I ask for copy of photographic evidence as first step?
2. It has only been a couple days since the notice, how fast should I reply?
3. Should I send reply to the NIP with copy of my Illinois (USA) licence and residence permit, but without quoted note above?
4. Should I wait for outcome before I apply for provisional licence (application form requests last 3 years residency)
5. Any other suggestions.



Many thanks!
Alisha
Pete D
You have not questioned that it was you speeding, or that you did not travel on that road. However a polite request for the Photo's to help idenify the driver may assist you, if only to convince you it was your car and not a cloned plate. Do not mention evidence. As far as obtaining a provisional I would think that by talking to DVLA they would arrange to take a copy of your passport at a local DVLA office and not retain your passport. This is all a bit of closing the door after the horse has bolted but you do have to take your test sometime. I assume you have stopped driving ?? If they catch you again I suspect you will be banned and you could even loose your car. You can only do 3. as you do not have any other licence and you must do it prior to 28 days from the date of the offence. I doubt they will send a conditional fixed penalty, probably a letter asking more questions or a summons to appear in court. Pete D
alisha_2002
Pete D,

Many, many thanks for your time and advice.
Yes I have stopped driving.

Is it really 28 days from the offence or date of the NIP notice? The offence was 7 days before the notice.
Should I send polite letter asking for photo before sending back the NIP form?
What do you think is the most likely outcome for this incident?

About the passport identification verification, well I had called the DVLA office two weeks ago (before the NIP) and was told in no uncertain terms that passport verification for non-EC passports can not be done same day, even if I personally deliver the passport to the DVLA office. I was told that sometimes it takes a little less than three weeks, but not to count on it and it would not be less than 2 weeks. I asked the DVLA person why Immigration can let me in the country with my passport in seconds at Heathrow but the DVLA takes weeks? I was told that immigration and DVLA are not the same.

Again thanks so much for your kind assistance and help.

Alisha
Pete D
You have 28 days from the date of the offence. Who else could it have been. Do you drive on that road at the time the offence happened. ?? Pete D
andy_foster
QUOTE (Pete D)
You can only do 3. as you do not have any other licence and you must do it prior to 28 days from the date of the offence. I doubt they will send a conditional fixed penalty, probably a letter asking more questions or a summons to appear in court. Pete D


QUOTE (Pete D)
You have 28 days from the date of the offence.


What a load of utter bollox.
The 28 days to provide the driver's details under s. 172 RTA 1988 (respond to the NIP) starts from the date that the notice was served.

Regarding the US license, I'd wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to offer an opinion.

alisha_2002
Pete D,

It was probably me, but could have been my husband. He was off work that day and we were out together.

What is most likely final outcome?

Thanks again!

Alisha

alisha_2002
Andy_foster,

Thanks. I very much appreciate all advice as I am very much in the dark on this issue.

Regards,
Alisha

Pete D
DooooH. Spot on Andy, my mistake. Well you could request the Photos to help identify the driver in a polite letter to the camera parnership. Is you husband a UK driver on a UK licence. Pete D
alisha_2002
Pete D and Andy_foster,

Well it seems I have a little more time, but I do not plan to use all the time I have. My husband and I married in August 2006 and while he had a residence permit from Nov 2006, he didn't actually move here until July 07. Even though he only came here for a week every other month, I suspect he is in exactly same boat I am with respect to 12 month rule.

This is my first ever traffic offence, not withstanding the now obvious issue. What can I expect after I send in the NIP with a copy of my Illinois (USA) licence and naming myself? Any idea what I can expect as the final outcome considering that I was most likely the driver? Will I have opportunity to plead guilty by post?

Again many thanks!

Alisha
Pete D
That does not match what you stated in the beginning.
.
"The issue is that I have primarily lived in the UK since 2003, i.e. more than 12 months. I have a valid Illinois (USA) driver's licence that was issued in April 2007 with my USA address. Because my original work permit was due to expire in August 2007, my company renewed the work permit and I was issued a new 'Residence Permit' dated July 2007 (it expires in 2010). I am the keeper of the car and it was bought in August 2007. I had moved home and have lease agreement start date July 2007"

As I stated ealier with the dates of the second Work Permit and the Residence Permit you migh slip under the radar but a court appearance is highly probable and points on you ghost UK licence and a fine plus costs. Pete D
alisha_2002
Pete D,

Thanks! What I stated in the beginning was my situation. You asked about my husband as being possible driver and I wrote later about his situation which is different from mine.

Any idea how big the fine might be?

Alisha



The Rookie
Regardless, naming someone who was not driving is a very serious offence, and if two collude that could be a conspiracy to pervert which carries a MANDATORY jail term...

If you think you were driving then you need to name yourself before 28 days from the date the notice was served.

If you think your husband was driving, then name him in the same timeframe.

If you are GENUINELY unsure, then you (as keeper of the car at the time) have to excercise reasonable dilligence in trying to ID the driver, writing (ASAP) for photo's, checking diaries, mobile phone and car records etc etc to try and ID the driver. If you can't (using reasonable dillignece) ID the driver, you will probably be summonsed to court and invited to show you used reasonable dilligence.

If either you or your husband was driving and admit this, then if you plead guilty to the original offence its doubtful that they will check your licence situation further.

Simon
jaykay

As long as you are allowed to live in another country you driving licence status won't be an issue - each time you leave the UK and return a valid overseas licence is good for another twelve months. The arguement would be that when you do leave the UK you don't HAVE to return, you could choose to return to the US. Just because you have a job, house etc in the UK is irrelevant.
Pete D
That applies to 'Visitors' not to a residency holder with a work permit. Visitors don't come for 4 years. Pete D
alisha_2002
Simon and Jaykay,

Your advice sets mind at ease a bit. I do have a 3 year old passport that is literally 1 empty visa page left with all other pages (including 23 additional pages) filled with exit and entry stamps and visas. In fact, I have been home to the US 4 times this year alone. I will have no problem proving that. Hopefully others will corroborate your advice.

I am so very appreciative of everyone's help. I have had lots of trouble sleeping and have been studying very hard my hazard perception and theory for taking the tests ASAP.

Many many thanks!

Alisha
alisha_2002
Pete D,

I understand your advice and it is also reasonable.

I do know that the main issue for me has always been the fact that I am expected to travel on moments notice and surrendering my passport for 3 weeks is a huge problem. Not to mention, my grandmother living at home in the States died this year and what if I had just sent my passport to the DVLA? Would the DVLA have been able to find my passport and send it back to me in time for me to travel to her funeral? It seems a human rights issue if in order to start the process of getting a UK licence I first must agree to effectively being under house arrest, unable to leave the country for three weeks. Believe me, I have called the DVLA 3 times, hoping to find someone who would tell me that I could bring my passport in for verification and leave with it the same day. No joy, all gave the same, almost robotic response.

Many thanks Pete D, I need to know the right answer. I hope for further corroboration from anyone in the know.

British people are the best (New Zealanders are fine too!)!!

Alisha
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