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fresko
Hi people.

New to the forum, but already learning so much, what a god send this site is. rolleyes.gif

My dispute is this.

At the beginning of the year, I had entered a private car park controlled by a company called OPC. Their carpark adjoined my customers car park and it's often a case of cars fighting for spaces which on this particular day meant that I was snapped by there patrol staff straddling the car parks zone operated by OPC.

I instantly disputed this stating that I was dispalying a permit for my customers car park and that it was no longer than 15mins etc, etc. This dipsute has gone on for the best part of the year now. I eventually offered to pay them part payment, with the rest to follow, and that I had been unemployed, however I just kept getting cold generic responses.

More recently a debt recovery company called Windsor-Smythe & Partners has inherited the case and have slowly started sticking on £20 solicitor letter fee's, and interest @ 8% !! I had contacted them recently with a cheque for the original sum as full and final settlement, however this has been ignored and the sum now hiked up above £200 + mention of final warning before there going to go to county court for further proceedings. They have enclosed what appears to be county court claim form filled out with my details in it, not stamp sealed nor any claim numbers etc, just there to prove it's going to go to court I guess??


Is this likely to happen from anybody's experience. Are private parking tickets taken seriously? Should I seek solicitors help on this?

What's the likelyhood of anything materialising with court........maybe It's an opportunity to get a fair hearing?

Please advise.
bama
as you now know engaging with PPC scammers is not the best way to deal with these things.
haven't looked up these companies etc yet but quickly found that they are known around the web
Have a read of the Private Parking FAQ that hangs off the Read This sticky at the top of this forum.

also see inter alia

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum...ery-letter.html

is there a covenant that covers the parking situation. I am not a lawyer but I suppose that could muddy things up a bit...

Edit addition.

Seems we know these guys alrady
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=22580
I even posted in the thread...
Seems that OPC and the DRA are 'tightly bound' - no suprise, that is the SOP foir these scumbags PPCs -and that they have been known to resort to issuing confetti purporting to be Court papers. very naughty chappies...

With that kind of track record do you think they are playing with a 'straight bat' ? . .
fresko
Hi Bama.

I have read through the link....many thanks.

The only thing that differs between the person in the link's encounters and mine, being that the solicitors in my case have enclosed what appears to be a copy of a processed county court claim form to my nearest court house. I don't know if this is legal, whether there going to persue it, or if it's simply been copied off the courts website and details entered to scare me?

I couldn't see the conclusion of that persons case with the solicitors letter either. I wondered if they heard anything else. I tried ignoring them too, granted I have tried to communicate, but beofre visiting this site I thought it was a stand up legitimate firm??

Has anyone ever received a claim form like this before. It lists claimant as OPC, me as defendant, and the solicitors too??

Still confused.
bama
I am not a lawyer but that looks like ther old fakery trick. I believe you should get Court papers from the Court itself and that they should be properly stamped by the Court.

Stick the papers up on imageshack and post links to them here. Anonymise them first though - wash your personal details out.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autoco...ticle&id=16


I found some ID info for them on the web - dated Oct 2006 so it may be diff now
Windsor - Smythe & Partners Debt Recovery
PO Box 1030 Liverpool L69 5WY
Telephone 0870 7777240

Partners - A.Windsor-Smythe, S.Windsor, R.Denman, P.During, T.Benvenga


I haven't yet found them on Companies House or on the DP Register so the chances of them being legit are tiny.

If, as suspected, they are faking Court papers you should 'have them'.

You could just ring the COurt and ask for information/ confirmation - no need to go into details of the case, just verify the papers are valid.
Glacier2
Does the claim form have a county court seal on it?

PPCs sometimes send out completed but unsubmitted county court claim forms simply to put the frighteners on you. I would ignore them and let them send the papers to the court. No PPC has successfully won a claim over private parking. If you receive anything from the court, post here and you will get all the advice you need to defeat them.
fresko
Interesting............

That's definately the firm.

I will try and scan the form in over the weekend!

I noticed that there wasn't a registered business address on any of their letters, a legal requirment if a registered business. It has been sent from Liverpool, and every other aspect of the appearance of the letter looks relatively proffesional so it's very deceiving!

The court notice definately has no court stamp on it, and I would say that it's either enroute to the court, or a copy??

Has anyone every been taken to court by this company, or another solicitors firm under similar circumstances does anybody know???
bama
Phone the Court today - now. explain that you "believe that I have received faked papers purporting to be from YOUR Court" a from a Solicitor and that you need to verify the legitmacy of the papers.
If, as expected the Court tells you that the papers are a load of tat then by all means ask the Court who the Solicitor should be reported to to. If the bod from the Court hums and arrs about that then press on to speak to a superior/ the responsible person at the Court.

neil24103
QUOTE (fresko @ Fri, 16 Nov 2007 - 11:44) *
Hi people.

New to the forum, but already learning so much, what a god send this site is. rolleyes.gif

My dispute is this.

At the beginning of the year, I had entered a private car park controlled by a company called OPC. Their carpark adjoined my customers car park and it's often a case of cars fighting for spaces which on this particular day meant that I was snapped by there patrol staff straddling the car parks zone operated by OPC.

I instantly disputed this stating that I was dispalying a permit for my customers car park and that it was no longer than 15mins etc, etc. This dipsute has gone on for the best part of the year now. I eventually offered to pay them part payment, with the rest to follow, and that I had been unemployed, however I just kept getting cold generic responses.

More recently a debt recovery company called Windsor-Smythe & Partners has inherited the case and have slowly started sticking on £20 solicitor letter fee's, and interest @ 8% !! I had contacted them recently with a cheque for the original sum as full and final settlement, however this has been ignored and the sum now hiked up above £200 + mention of final warning before there going to go to county court for further proceedings. They have enclosed what appears to be county court claim form filled out with my details in it, not stamp sealed nor any claim numbers etc, just there to prove it's going to go to court I guess??


Is this likely to happen from anybody's experience. Are private parking tickets taken seriously? Should I seek solicitors help on this?

What's the likelyhood of anything materialising with court........maybe It's an opportunity to get a fair hearing?

Please advise.


not stamped by court.who they kidding(YOU).JUST IGNORE IS THE BEST WAY.dont waste yor money.unenforceable as they say on here
bama
ignore the demands for payment by all means but please do not just take it laying down.
Think of all the other victims who WILL pay up because they don't find pepipoo.

No Covenant re the parking then ?
fresko
QUOTE (bama @ Fri, 16 Nov 2007 - 12:51) *
ignore the demands for payment by all means but please do not just take it laying down.
Think of all the other victims who WILL pay up because they don't find pepipoo.

No Covenant re the parking then ?



Wow. This would be great news if found to be the case, however the "FINAL WARNING" leaves me pondering .............do I assume court proceedings to follow if ignored, or do I carry about my business assuming nothing will materialise?

Bama, what do you mean "no covenant re the parking then??

Thanks, for all the replies so far. Feeling a little better.
bama
Covenant covering use or your customers car park (and the adjoining one) that you mentioned in the first post.
if there is one I believe things could possibly get sticky - have found other cases on the web where this reportedly snookered people

Have you phoned the Court ? that is the quickest and easist way to settle your mind and find the true facts about these papers. It is zero risk ringing the Court.

fresko
Hi Bama,

I beleive that there was clearly indicated signs within the OPC carpark yes. Not the case in my customers car park and the two actually merge at one point (where I found myself forced to park one day). They also have photographic evidence, as I requested this once already-should have menitoned-sorry.

There is no claim number, nor reference to query the form. All that's filled in is my local court house details (correct) the claiment, defender, and solicitors operating from the PO box address??? What solicitors operators from a PO box address anyway??

I noticed at the bottom of the form it says in small writting that it's an N1 claim form (CPR Part 7) then in brackets 4.99- is this a price, or a reference I wonder. It's a photocopy anyway, and I've noticed a spelling mistake within the Statement of Truth form at the back lol.

I think the bottom line is, has this solicitor Windsor Smythe & partners ever taken anyone on here to court......Is there moneys where their mouth is? otherwise they can shove it!

Thanks for all the response so far guys!
bama
Signs not the same thing as a Covenent. forget about covenant for now as I expect that if you had one you would know about it.

Have you rung the Court ? Five minute job, zero risk and all will be much clearer afterwards.

You don't want to take the chance that they have filed papers and you ignore them and then get found against in absence.
jdfi
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Fri, 16 Nov 2007 - 13:27) *
Does the claim form have a county court seal on it?

PPCs sometimes send out completed but unsubmitted county court claim forms simply to put the frighteners on you. I would ignore them and let them send the papers to the court. No PPC has successfully won a claim over private parking. If you receive anything from the court, post here and you will get all the advice you need to defeat them.



To be fair, including a form like this is standard with any debt recovery situation (business 2 business, consumer, etc).

Note that they are likely to be a "partnership" not a "limited" company, hence Companies House requirements do not apply.
bama
sorry jdfi, have to disagree.
I have a collection of letters from various scam DCAs. lots of red ink threats sure but faked Court papers not the norm IMV.
As for Companies House,.. it does not absolve them of Data Protection registration - which is absent.
Also the Law Society does not list them.
QED...
RD400E
QUOTE (neil24103 @ Fri, 16 Nov 2007 - 12:45) *
not stamped by court.who they kidding(YOU).JUST IGNORE IS THE BEST WAY.dont waste yor money.unenforceable as they say on here



The best way forward has just been provided by the scammers. If indeed the papers have been falsified then it's the ideal opportunity to turn the tables on them. They will have committed a serious criminal offence ohmy.gif
bama
QUOTE (RD400E @ Fri, 16 Nov 2007 - 14:42) *
QUOTE (neil24103 @ Fri, 16 Nov 2007 - 12:45) *
not stamped by court.who they kidding(YOU).JUST IGNORE IS THE BEST WAY.dont waste yor money.unenforceable as they say on here



The best way forward has just been provided by the scammers. If indeed the papers have been falsified then it's the ideal opportunity to turn the tables on them. They will have committed a serious criminal offence ohmy.gif


yes indeedy, if fresko makes that quick phone call...
Muggerbee
If indeed it is an N1 form submitted to you as genuine in an attempt to coerce you to
pay a debt under contract, alleged or otherwise then it's subject to the following :

Administration of Justice Act 1970 (c.31)


Part V
Miscellaneous Provisions

— (1) A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract, he—
(a)
harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;
(b)
falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;
©
falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or
(d)
utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not


Criminal offence punishable by a fine of up to £ 5000 pounds

So if the form you have is an N1, just not stamped call the old bill and say if you're not too busy alligning your lti 20/20
could you possibly go and investigate this crime. Also point out that if the debt is NOT owed which can be established
by making them take you to court properly, then the offence is covered under section 21 of the theft act and is
commonly referred to as Blackmail.

Mick
fresko
Hi,

taken on board regarding contacting the court!

I'm trying but it's like they've got one phone line to the world....constantly engaged!!

Do I just simply ask them if they've a record of the Claimant OPC making a clain..would they reveal that to me then?

If they say they haven't it doesn't mean to say that there not going to process it to the court after the 10 day final warning?

Thx.
bama

Good man !! this is the Fight Baclk forum after all...


Explain that you "believe that I have received faked papers purporting to be from YOUR Court" from a Solicitor and that you need to verify the legitimacy of the papers.
If, as expected the Court tells you that the papers are a load of tat then by all means ask the Court who the Solicitor should be reported to. If the bod from the Court hums and arrs about that then press on to speak to a superior/ the responsible person at the Court.


When you make the call have pen and paper and don't be afraid to make notes - slowing the court bod down so you can do this. You will have got the name of the court bod at the start of the call of course.
if you can record the call for you own personal use I donlt see the harm. that way you can play it back to yourself at will. Even if doing that I would still make written notes as the call progressed.
RD400E
If you take the court form to your local plod shop they will immediately be able to tell if it's real or not. Once decided, they will be obliged to pursue a criminal act, if one has been committed.
Muggerbee
Quick question

is It a form N1, i.e. purple(or a photocopy of an N1 form)

Like this



and has it got a claim number in the box for it ?
fresko
Hi Muggerbee,

It is that exact form only black and whaite so I'd say a photocopy.

I have contacted the court and local council. Neither had any reference. However, they couldn't do much without a claim number which I'm not aware of as it hasn't been filled in.

I'm tempted to go in to my local police statiojn and seek further advice on this.

Only thing I'm confused about is that I offered the company a cheque for x amount as stated in full and final settlement...I would have thought they would have cashed this, and or persued more money through what appears to be harrasment mesures.

Hmmmm?

P.s No claim number!
RD400E
QUOTE (fresko @ Fri, 16 Nov 2007 - 16:47) *
Hi Muggerbee,

It is that exact form only black and whaite so I'd say a photocopy.


Additionally to what has been previously said, doesn't the Crown have copyright on all its documents ? Perhaps another offence to add if it's a photocopy.


I'm gonna go buy some popcorn smile.gif
bama
well you made the offer so an civil court stuff is covered. as you offered (sent ?) a cheque and they just escalated their demands I would cancle the cheque now. did you send it recorded delivery ?

looksl like you can (and should IMV) stop these guys .
we all look forward to the imageshack images of the stuff they sent you. with any luck the words they put on the forms will be a clincher.

well done on contacting the Court about

Windsor-Smythe & Partners

and

OPC


(I emboldened the text to help google...)
bertz
Hi,

I've also had dealings with these clowns (my post was the one added earlier in the thread).

Like you they also sent me unstamped court papers along with a thretening letter. I ignored it and guess what happened? - NOTHING! Well, i say nothing, they are still sending the same unstamped court papers with the same letter, each time asking for a bit more money. Each time they filed away, just in case.

Cheers.
bama
so they keep incurring postage and printing costs on an obvious losing case. let them carry on !
what plonkers.
Do they think they will have a better case when their fake bill reaches a certain amount or something.

As law society doesn't list them (that I can find) one has to wonder if this is another G White affair.
Or just an out and out forgery. If they are pretending to be Solicitors and aren't doesn't the sky fall in on them (legally).
Muggerbee
OK

heres the scenario I envisage :

You toddle off down the cop shop with all the papers in hand along with copies of
the Administration of justice act s31 and the theft act S28 and advise them a crime
has been commited under one of these criminal statutes.

You ask for it to be dealt with, possibly you may have to tell them that it's not a civil matter while shoving
the copies of the acts at them, telling them it's causing you immense distress.

The least they can do is log it and give you a crime number, then you write back to these ingrates
stating that you have consulted with the police and this matter is being investigated under the
previously mentioned acts and here is the crime number. As a potential witness any further attempts
to contact you will make them liable to a charge of attempting to pervert the cousre of justice
which under sentencing guidlines renders the offender when found guilty to a prison term of
up to 2 years.



Mike7777777
Where does the offence of uttering a forged instrument stand in relation to writing documents purporting to have a status in law which, in fact, does not apply?
Muggerbee
Administration of Justice Act 1970 (c.31)



Part V

Miscellaneous Provisions



— (1) A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract, he—

(a)

harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b)

falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

©

falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or

(d)

utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.


sarahg1969
There's nothing wrong with them sending a photocopy of the claim form that they are going to issue, or have already sent to the Court to issue, for your information. However, if they are doing this as a bullying tactic, and the papers have not been sent or issued, then I would say that is very sharp practice indeed.

BTW, copying Court papers is OK. You HAVE to send everything to the Court in duplicate/triplicate or whatever, so that usually involves photocopying forms.

Sarah
fresko
QUOTE (sarahg1969 @ Sun, 18 Nov 2007 - 21:53) *
There's nothing wrong with them sending a photocopy of the claim form that they are going to issue, or have already sent to the Court to issue, for your information. However, if they are doing this as a bullying tactic, and the papers have not been sent or issued, then I would say that is very sharp practice indeed.

BTW, copying Court papers is OK. You HAVE to send everything to the Court in duplicate/triplicate or whatever, so that usually involves photocopying forms.

Sarah


Thanks for clearing that up Sarah.

And apologies for not submitting the forms etc online people, I've had difficulties with my scanner recently.......twas the first time I'd attempted to use it mind, I'm no techno wiz!!

Anyway, I intend on getting a crime reference number from the police this week, and responding back to them stating as such.

I had contacted the courts but they had nothing on me, nor could really do much more under the circumstances without a claim number.

Theres a fair amount of conflicting views in this post now, I think I have only one choice, that i'll have to sit it out. There are others who have contacted me privately to confirm that they've had similar encounters with the firm and that they simply repaeat the same warning letter bumping up the amount owed?? Don't really know what the point in them doing that would be, however if anybody else has had any experiences similar to this feel free to further exchange notes either through PM'ing me, or carrying on the thread here.

Kind Regards.



Bye for now.
jdfi
QUOTE (bama @ Fri, 16 Nov 2007 - 15:19) *
sorry jdfi, have to disagree.
I have a collection of letters from various scam DCAs. lots of red ink threats sure but faked Court papers not the norm IMV.
As for Companies House,.. it does not absolve them of Data Protection registration - which is absent.
Also the Law Society does not list them.
QED...



Bama, I wasn't disagreeing with you:

I was merely saying that in a debt-recovery situation, it is a regular practice to enclose with your final demand letter a copy of a county court claim form (not yet filed).

I say this from my experience of business to business debt chasing.

The meaning is that "we're serious, we will issue against you".

In respect of companies house, I wasn't trying to suggest they don't need to register for DPA. I was just saying that (on the face of it) a group of people can get together and refer to themselves as Bama Partnership, and they are not a LIMITED COMPANY, they are a PARTNERSHIP - this is perfectly legitimate. Get yellow pages out, and look up some of your local reputable solicitors firms. Some will be LLP (limited liability partnership - is registered at companies house), some will just be a partnership, some may even be formed under Royal Charter!

Obviously anyone who is processing personal information (whether an individual in business, a Ltd Co, a partnership, or an unincorporated association) needs to register with Data Protection commissioner unless they fit one of the exemptions.

Again, Law Society registration is only needed for solicitors, not debt collectors (I forget what the cowboys in this particular circumstance are claiming to be). However it could be that one of their managers is registered in his own name.... so you could have Cherie Blair QC trading as Roxburgh, Graham White and Partners....

NB the above is just a fictitious example.... not treason.
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