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Egro
Hi chaps. Please take a look at my partners circumstances below and provide me with your feedback as to how best proceed.

He was pulled over on a 3 lane A road with 3 passengers travelling at a speed in excess of 100mph. (Was actually travelling around 120mph).

Unmarked Volvo pulled him over and said that they will be prosecuting on basis of “corroboration”. (ie: their word against his).

They had no car camera nor did they clock him with a stationary speed gun. We actually don’t think they were Traffic officers as they were plain clothed officers.

They did say they believed he had been travelling no slower than 115mph (by which measurement I can only assume using their own car speedometer in pursuit?).

The point of us raising this request is to see from you guys how you think the best method to proceed is. We have just brought a house and our credit cards are to the max with typical refurbs + mortgage payments etc…

The “Statement of facts” included in the summons states:

The defendant drove a motor ***** on the said road at a speed exceeding 70 miles per hour. The defendants speed was checked by a police officer and found to ****

(I am not sure what these asterix’s represent, but they’re on the “statement of facts”)

We are tempted to submit a guilty plea – how do the magistrates take to this – do they look down on your and impose a more heavy fine/ban if you’re not present? Or are you better off pleading ng and getting a solicitor.

Not that wanting to evade the law is the goal but you think there is enough circumstances here to sustain a not-guilty plea? It’s hard to plead guilty when you don’t know what they’re going to hit you with in terms of evidence?
axeman
QUOTE (Egro @ Tue, 30 Oct 2007 - 23:20) *
I chaps. Please take a look at my partners circumstances below and provide me with your feedback as to how best proceed.

He was pulled over on the A30 in Devon with 3 passengers travelling at a speed in excess of 100mph. (Was actually travelling around 120mph).

Unmarked Volvo pulled him over and said that they will be prosecuting on basis of “corroboration”. (ie: their word against his).

They had no car camera nor did they clock him with a stationary speed gun. We actually don’t think they were Traffic officers as they were plain clothed officers.

They did say they believed he had been travelling no slower than 115mph (by which measurement I can only assume using their own car speedometer in pursuit?).

The offence was on 26th April 2007 and we have heard nothing from the courts/police until the 24th October (2 days shy of 6 months) upon which he received a court summons in the post.

Not that it will make much difference, but the letter delivered was actually dated the 09th October, so obviously got lost in the postal system for a good two weeks – also received with a bundle of cellotape sealing the letter whereby it had already been opened and resealed by someone. The court summons was for the 1st November, so provides only 6 days to review all documentation, determine plea and send back documents/licence, arrange solicitor – ridiculous me thinks!!!…. So have arranged an adjournment until 6th November.

Other factors:

Vehicle – Subaru WRX Company Car (I know, not helpful really).
Previous convictions – none
Salary – 30,000
Profession – IT Network Engineer
Career relies on licence – YES

The point of us raising this request is to see from you guys how you think the best method to proceed is. We have just brought a house and our credit cards are to the max with typical refurbs + mortgage payments etc…

The “Statement of facts” included in the summons states:

The defendant drove a motor ***** on the said road at a speed exceeding 70 miles per hour. The defendants speed was checked by a police officer and found to ****

(I am not sure what these asterix’s represent?)

We are tempted to submit a guilty plea and not attend court – how do the magistrates take to this – do they look down on your and impose a more heavy fine/ban if you’re not present?

Or do you think there is enough circumstances here to sustain a not-guilty plea?

Hearing is on Nov 6th – so helpful responses most eagerly anticipated guys?


i would submit a not guilty plea and get more advice from here, a bit of breathing space is needed, 115+mph is usually a ban. do the BIB have to be in uniform? you also say "they" by this I assume more than one, if so its harder to beat them. wait a bit and you should get more and better advice.
Moogman
Hi Egro, must be a very nerve racking time.

It is extremely difficult to defend a roadside pull, even when the occifer is not traffic.....basically your word versus theirs and guess who the mags believe 100% of the time if you go to court pleading not guilty!!
Very best option (I'm no expert by the way...just a layman) is to get your partner suited and booted, get yourself a (cheap) lawyer (don't bother going for someone who will ask for big bucks telling you they can get you off.....roadside pull and you're stuffed).
Getting the lawyer shows you are taking it seriously by the way.

Be very.....very....very.....apologetic......understand how stupid etc......will never do it again.......booked speed awareness course (at own expense etc....)......ask for leniency due to having to support family/ageing mother.....children.....someone other than yourself (if it's only you having inconvenience then the mags don't care).

Suggest you could take some holiday from work.......say 2 weeks......you might get away with a short ban and a big fine.

Good luck.

Cheers.

Moogy.
The Rookie
A roadside pull is VERY hard to fight, the evidenec of two of them alone is enough to convict, add in a third and the corroboration from the speedo (which they probably will have checked over a measured distance) will be enough to sink your partner without a trcae.

115mph+ will be a ban.

2 choices really as I see it
1/ Plead guilty, grovel and plead extreme hardship (for others not himself) and hope to keep the ban/points/fine to a minimum
2/ Plead guilty to the absolute offence of speeding and request a 'Newtonhearing' in order to contest the accuracy of the alleged speed.

It would help if you could scan, depersonalise and post the officers statements, or alternatively type them in in full.

Simon
Egro
Hi Rookie - thanks for the advice.

I dont have the officers statements - they're blanked out on the documentation that came to me. The documentation states that if you intend to plead "not guilty", you can request a copy of the evidence for your case - however, I am reluctant to do so simply becuase I dont know if pleading "not guilty" is the best method for me?

In forum members opinion, if you're going to plead guilty, do you think it best done with the "not attending court" option, or best to plead guilty on the day and turn up to court?
nemo
QUOTE (Egro @ Wed, 31 Oct 2007 - 22:37) *
In forum members opinion, if you're going to plead guilty, do you think it best done with the "not attending court" option, or best to plead guilty on the day and turn up to court?

If I intended to mitigate, I'd prefer to dress smartly and do it in person.

That said, if the Magistrates were considering banning you (which, at the speed alleged, is probable), then your attendance at court for sentencing would be mandatory - you would have no choice..
The Rookie
It can be worth pleading by post when facing a ban as they may want to close the case and therefore give a punishment other than a ban, but at 115 its unlikley....

If you think there is any scope in trying to argue a lower speed then plead guilty and ask for a Newton hearing to 'discuss' the alleged speed, if not you will get a lesser sentance for an early guilty plea.

Simon
Egro
Hi guys, I'll keep this short.

My partner is being done for speeding and is being summoned to court. We want to go with Guilty because we know that he was exceeding the speed limit on the named road by a fair speed. However, the "statement of facts" that came with the Summons only says: "The defendant drove a motor vehicle on the said road at a speed exceeding 70mph, the defendants speed was checked by a police office and found to be ****" (the remainder of the literature is not provided).

His problem is that he WANTS to plead guilty, but as the courts REFUSE to disclose the full "statement of facts"/evidence, we don’t really know what we are pleading guilty to???

The only way you can obtain the evidence / prosecution material is to plead N/G - which seems ridiculous as he wants to do the right thing (and knows he is guilty), but needs to know what he is pleading guilty too....

We have sought legal advice and one motoring lawyer firm is adamant we should go N/G to obtain the S.O.F (assuring me that we can always go with a Guilty plead afterwards) of course the said motoring lawyers want to charge for their services, so this is in their interest.

We have also sought legal advice from an impartial advisor (free legal advice with our mortgage) and they are adamant that you're best off with a Guilty plead as this will lesser the punishment due to the fact that you're pleading guilty at the first available opportunity which will prove that you are remorseful.... (the literature from the courts actually states that your punishment will be reviewed an lightened if you do

I haven’t really asked a question in all of the above, but essentially want to see what PePiPoo recommend? NG seems like a lot of effort just to see what’s in the officer’s statement, but then again, pleading guilty to a charge you're not aware of is a bit like doing Russian roulette???

Any advice would be deeply appreciated.
The Rookie
Mute point, if he pleads guity the punishment can only be given based on items already disclosed, so if they don't put a speed, then he should only be punished with the normal minimum...

Example, caught doing 58 in a 30, so looking at 6 points and about £300 fine, but the SOF only says exceeding the limit, in which case tha mags don't know its 58 so would normally punish for sub45 which is 3pts £60 fine (+costs....)

It may not be of benefit to force a higher speed to be disclosed...

If after pleading guilty they try and enforce a penalty for a higher speed he would have good grounds for an appeal...art6 ECHR and the right to a fair trial.

Simon
Egro
Hi chaps - court was today and we've just got back from our 4 hour drive back from Barnstaple Civic Centre - phew, of course watching our speed the whole way!

He was banned from driving for 21 days and fined £750 + £50 court costs + £15 victim support fee (whatever that is?).

When my partner met with his solicitor (www.marymonson.co.uk , £1175) she actually showed him the prosecution evidence - it was shocking what the officers had produced. It was a full report going into detail about the speed he was travelling, even said that they levelled their speed at 115mph at which the driver was still accelerating (sounds bad doesn’t it?). I think it would have been stupid to go with NG knowing that you've been caught red handed.

The mags said they had gone with a lighter sentence due to his need to drive for living and had no choice to present a smaller than fair fine due to his financial circumstances. The solicitor highlighted his £6000 student loan and the fact that he was paying RENT and MORTGAGE at the present time due to being between properties, which sought out the sympathy vote.

Advice for anyone else in the same posistion - get legal advice, get a solicitor if you've been doing an excessive speed, prepare. Ta
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