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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2007
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A616(T) near Gilbert Hill, Langsett, Barnsley
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was following road for shefield at 22.36 hours when I got flashed, I turned round to check the camera and found it to be dull and dirty, more a green colour which seemed to help it blend rather than hightlight it

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

    We have an Article that describes what is likely to happen when you respond to the S172 notice in more detail.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.1: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:36:42 +0100
I turned round to check the camera and found it to be dull and dirty, more a green colour which seemed to help it blend rather than hightlight it

That yellow colour has a "pantone colour" number. get a pantone colour chart from a printer or off ebay and compare it with the camera.
If the colour chart matches better with a different yellow the camera fails to comply with the rules regs..

You also need the bit of statutory instrument or law that compels the camera to be that colour

A full pantone colour chart is about £60-80 but a 100 colour selector id £3.20 on ebay inc postage

Take photos with the matched colours and the sigh to show the match and mis-match
some graphics packages (e.g. Coreldraw, probably others) allow specification by pantone colour. if you have access to a graphics package that does this it may cuts costs ?
I dont think its manditory they have to be yellow......
I can assure you 100% that speed cameras have to be yellow , a very specific yellow reflective paint.
45. Depending upon the enforcement method used, speed camera housings (including
tripod-mounted cameras) or the camera operator or the mobile enforcement vehicle
should be clearly visible from the driver’s viewpoint at the following minimum visibility
• 60 metres where the speed limit is 40 mph or less;
• 100 metres at all other speed limits.
46. On every occasion before commencing enforcement at a camera site, the enforcement
officer should check that the visibility guidance is met.
47. Fixed speed camera housings located within an area of street or highway lighting should
be coloured yellow either by painting both the front and back of the housing or covering
both the front and back of the housing with retro-reflective sheeting. In an area not
covered by street or highway lighting, the speed camera housing should be treated with
yellow retro-reflective sheeting. The recommended paint colour is No.363 Bold Yellow
of BS381C:1996. The retro-reflective sheeting should meet the requirements of BS EN
12899-1:2001 or a suitable microprismatic sheeting conforming to BS 8408 or an
equivalent Standard of a European Economic Area State.

News Release 517:
3 December 2001

Transport Minister John Spellar today announced that safety cameras will in future have to be bright yellow to maximise their visibility to motorists, and he set out strict new guidelines for the visibility and signing of cameras and camera sites.

The new rules state that:

Camera housings must be yellow

No camera housing should be obscured by bridges, signs, trees or bushes
Cameras must be visible from 60 metres away in 40 mph or less areas and 100 metres for all other limits
Camera warning and speed limit reminders must be placed within one kilometre of fixed and mobile camera sites
Signs must only be placed in areas where camera housings are placed or where mobile cameras are used
Mobile speed camera users must be highly visible by wearing fluorescent clothing and their vehicles marked with reflective strips
Camera sites must be reviewed at least every six months to ensure that visibility and signing conditions are being met
The rules will be binding for every police force in and applying to join the netting-off scheme, where money from fines is re-invested in more cameras at dangerous places. National guidelines for other police force areas will be published in the new year by the DTLR and the Home Office.

Unveiling a demonstration yellow camera, John Spellar said:

"I am delighted to announce these new measures relating to the positioning and visibility of safety cameras. These rules should ensure that motorists are not caught by surprise by cameras. I hope that this will reinforce the Government's message that cameras are there to save lives at places where there is a history of speed related accidents. They are not there as a means of raising money.
"We have chosen the colour yellow, and are permitting the use of reflective strips to maximise visibility. In time safety cameras across the country will be yellow. That consistency and the tightening of the rules on cameras being obscured and signposted should serve to give motorists plenty of warning that a camera is present."
Home Officer Minister John Denham said:

"By giving ample warning to motorists as to where cameras are located, we aim to deter excessive and inappropriate speeds on our roads. Our aim is not to catch speeding motorists but to reduce injuries and crashes at known accident hotspots. These new rules on camera visibility will ensure that motorists know exactly what the speed limit is, and there is now no excuse for getting a ticket."
Notes for Editors

1. The Road Traffic Act 1991 amended the law so that Courts could accept evidence of speeding from type approved photographic equipment accompanied only by a certificate signed on behalf of the relevant police force. All equipment used in camera schemes must be first type approved by the Home Office.

2. There are 15 police force areas currently in the netting-off scheme where money from camera fines can be re-invested in increased camera activity at places with a proven safety need. These are: Cambridgeshire, Cleveland, Derbyshire, Essex, Lancashire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk, North Wales, Northamptonshire, Nottingham, South Wales, Staffordshire, Strathclyde, Thames Valley and Warwickshire. A further 12 forces have just applied to join the scheme, and more are expected to apply soon.

3. If for any reason highway authorities consider that yellow colouring is not suitable or there are special circumstances for some site locations, for example in areas of outstanding natural beauty, then a case needs to be made to the Safety Camera Netting off Project Board.

4. The Department (via DOT Circular Roads 1/92) recommends that cameras should be located at the sites which have the worst record for accidents caused by speeding and that, before deploying them, safety checks should be made to identify any other measures which should be carried out first (e.g. improving road layout, anti-skid surfacing, improved visibility, etc.). DOT Circular Roads 1/92 will shortly be updated and will include guidance on camera visibility.

5. Cameras are proving to be successful at reducing traffic speeds and accidents at high-risk sites. Monitoring of the first year of the netting-off pilot scheme has shown a reduction of 47% in the number of people killed and seriously injured at camera sites compared to the previous three years.

Published 3 December 2001
Not anymore. Councils can now 'hide' cameras. Part of the new netting off regs I believe.
The Rookie
Them breaking the rules for Netting off were never a defence against the original speeding charge anyway, and no-one would actively police that they even complied with the netting off rules. No area is now funded by netting off anyway but on a fixed amount contract.

letter to dft

I would like to clarify if DfT Safety camera ruled laid out in news release 517 still applies.

Recent court cases have made it very apparent that my local camera partnership believe that complying with traffic sign regulations is not compulsory and “they are only guidance”
That 6th monthly site reviews never happened and a camera route was incorrectly signed for 4+ years
Retired sites were still signed with camera signs
New camera routes have been established but not added to their website
I also notice on the M4 that a temporary speed camera is placed under a bridge east bound near Membury services

I am fully aware that the netting off scheme has ended and that camera signs are now to be collocated with speed roundels where possible.

I wanted definitive clarification if any or all of the following rules have been relaxed or superseded.

Yours sincerely

I will keep you informed
I notice in the DfT text .. Should is used and Guidelines is also used ...

Whatever the DfT says its not the law. The DfT only comment upon the law, they do not make it as the situation with 2 dates on the tickets shows.

I do not believe there is anything actually in law which requires camera housings to be yellow to any standard ... but will watch with interest this one wink.gif
When I see a bee hive, I get this urge to poke a stick in laugh.gif
QUOTE (anton @ Sat, 27 Oct 2007 - 11:25) *
That yellow colour has a "pantone colour" number.

Anton I don't think the colour is a true Pantone colour but a British Standard colour. Which is a shame as I've got a couple of Pantone books in the boot of my car & I was looking forward to poking a stick in the beehive!

Its probably possible to cross reference the BS colour with a pantone colour tho, which I'll do when I get a BS colour chip book. biggrin.gif
QUOTE (Wolfie_17 @ Mon, 29 Oct 2007 - 21:38) *
Anton I don't think the colour is a true Pantone colour but a British Standard colour.

This one ?

QUOTE (Site Conspicuity 'Rules')
The recommended paint colour is No.363 Bold Yellow of BS381C:1996. The retro-reflective sheeting should meet the requirements of BS EN 12899–1:2001 or a suitable microprismatic sheeting conforming to BS 8408 or an equivalent Standard of a European Economic Area State.
according to The Daily Telegraph's motoring section last Saturday, they don't HAVE to be yellow!
The Rookie
As has already bee said.....

Telegraph wrote
More on speed cameras next week

anyone here involved in that?
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