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malkj
I am about to respond with an informal appeal to an NTO which I know the council will reject as I have had previous communications with them on this specific locality. Infact I want them to reject it as I want this case to go to NPAS as a few hundred tickets depend on the outcome of that decision. I will put fuller details on here once my NTO appeal is rejected but my question at this time is as follows. Do I have to list in my appeal to the NTO the full details and all relevant facts or can I give brief details, to entice a hopeful rejection, and then give fuller details of my grounds to NPAS. In other words can put I forward arguments and statements of facts to NPAS that I have NOT disclosed in my NTO letter to the council or will NPAS only consider arguments I have already disclosed?
Nimbus
The Council will have the opportunity to respond to your reps at all stages, so really there is no opportunity for them to say they've been ambushed. They also have the somewhat dubious power of being able to cancell a PCN at any stage of the process.

I recently responded to an NtO merely ticking the 'Contravention did not occur' box and stating that the PCN was not issued. In the later Notice of Appeal I added that their NoR did not conform to SCHEDULE 6 (RTA 1991). I did not elaborate. Once I received the Councils NPAS appeal evidence bundle I blasted off an Notice of Appeal continuation sheet all guns blazing and a few kitchen sinks to boot. Received a nice letter back from NPAS thanking me for the further information.

Good luck and give 'em grief!
malkj
Thanks for that Nimbus – the thought in my mind is that if I go in all guns blazing quoting legal chapter and verse in my response to my NTO the Council may cancel my ticket simply to be ‘rid of me’, but I do not want that. There is a much bigger picture at stake at the location concerned involving many hundreds of tickets and that is why I wish to take their plight to a higher level as it were. So the question is the same – can I put up a paltry defence to my NTO to get it rejected and then put my fulsome case to the adjudicator or do I have to disclose my full defence NOW?

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Nimbus
QUOTE
do I have to disclose my full defence NOW?
So far as I'm aware and based upon my own experience in my answer above, then NO! You may wish to add in your reply to the NtO that you require the TRO, TA's pocket book notes whereby you'll be in a position to respond in more detail.
Nimbus
Further to your question and to confirm my answer have had an excellent result today winning my appeal, but be advised that the adjudicator did comment re my full account received late and commented "(admittedly somewhat late in the day)" So bear in mind NPAS do like to be seen to be fair if not impartial (55 pence given to NPAS for every ticket issued).
Teufel
there is noting in law which stops you appealing the pcn on point A
and the nto on point B

however since this is a civil case truthfulness openness and veracity can be important
for the adjudicator to balance competing claims and such behaviour may impact on this
spaceman
QUOTE (malkj @ Wed, 17 Oct 2007 - 13:45) *
Thanks for that Nimbus – the thought in my mind is that if I go in all guns blazing quoting legal chapter and verse in my response to my NTO the Council may cancel my ticket simply to be ‘rid of me’, but I do not want that. There is a much bigger picture at stake at the location concerned involving many hundreds of tickets and that is why I wish to take their plight to a higher level as it were. So the question is the same – can I put up a paltry defence to my NTO to get it rejected and then put my fulsome case to the adjudicator or do I have to disclose my full defence NOW?

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You do know that one adjudicator's decision is not binding on another?
nimh999
QUOTE (Nimbus @ Wed, 17 Oct 2007 - 23:58) *
So bear in mind NPAS do like to be seen to be fair if not impartial (55 pence given to NPAS for every ticket issued).
Except they don't want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg now, would they? PCN's pay their wages and I am sure they are very handsome indeed. Adjudicators will if they are going to find in your favour will pick the least controversial point for you to win on. This then allows the council to carry on issuing invalid, illegal, non compliant PCN's for the same points you may have originally raised because they didn't adjudicate on that.


QUOTE (spaceman @ Thu, 18 Oct 2007 - 18:01) *
You do know that one adjudicator's decision is not binding on another?
And how ludicrous is that. If an adjudicator finds a particular point invalid, illegal, non compliant then why should that not be set in stone?

Seems like an adjudicators job is jobs for the boys because they can revisit the same points over and over again just churning PCN's just for the money.
Teufel
no court or tribunal is bound by a lower or equivalents jugement

only that of a higher court is binding - that is the basis of english common law
DW190
QUOTE (Nimbus @ Wed, 17 Oct 2007 - 23:58) *
So bear in mind NPAS do like to be seen to be fair if not impartial (55 pence given to NPAS for every ticket issued).


NPAS are neither seen to be fair or impartial.

I emailed them requesting to be placed on their mailing list for the circulars they email to the Councils only to be told that I have to search their site and find them myself. That in my books is being bent towards the Councils.
malkj
Thanks to all for your words of wisdom – I sent a letter with my NTO explaining the full grounds of my appeal. In the chance that they would allow my appeal, (which don’t forget I did not want –but they may grant to keep me ‘quiet), I reminded them that I had already had received a letter from the council stating that in their opinion the parking restriction in dispute was lawful so I gave them two options - cancel my parking ticket, along with a few hundred others, & remove the illegal restriction or go to adjudication. I hope the latter case obviously prevails.



Once I have my letter of rejection I will give brief details of the parking restriction in place, which is giving cause for concern to many, for open advice. The failings by the council will amaze you!!! (but then again judging from some of the cases on this forum probably not!)



PS What is the timescale to adjudication from NTO rejection? – thank you all!
Glacier2
QUOTE (malkj @ Mon, 22 Oct 2007 - 12:39) *
PS What is the timescale to adjudication from NTO rejection? – thank you all!


Can be months from rejection to adjudication. In the meantime no enforcement action for the PCN can proceed.
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